We met after the meeting which I found strange I figured if I was to be named it would be before the meeting. They read me the letter from the WT. It basically said that they were happy about my recommendation but they couldn’t accept the recommendation of a 16 year old that I should wait until I was at least 17. Of course I was not 16. The problem is that in Spanish you write the day first the month after. So for example 3/10 which we usually read March 10 would read 3 of October. The PO told me he called the Branch but that they told him I had to wait until next visit. Another elder told me later that the problem was that he had told me before reading the letter and that the WT doesn’t tolerate that therefore they refused to make the correction. I was quickly told to keep doing what I was doing and that if I slow down it would be a sign of immaturity and that they would not recommend in the next visit.
I was devastated. I went home and cried tried to gather myself. I was thinking God wanted to teach me something that I wanted to be MS for the wrong reasons. However you are 17 only one time so I saw it as a failure. At 17 nine months felt like an eternity especially when you are waiting for something. I had failed and I could never get a 2 nd change to redo it. I felt a betrayed the elders asked me to do a lot threating me not to recommended me if I didn’t comply yet they failed to write my age correctly. The tried writing the CO to see if he could do something I found later he was DF.
I met with the elder I considered my friend the following week and I told him I was pretty down about what had happened that I was pretty crushed. I ask him nicely, crying to please light my load. I told him that for some time I had thought about asking to get some help on some of the privileges like perhaps the lists for microphones, platforms and sound, and that anything would help. I told him I didn’t want to bring it before because I didn’t want them to think I was just immature and didn’t like to say no. He told me to rethink about it that if I gave up anything I could forget about being recommended next time that other elders would not be happy about it.
I lost all joy. I felt I was being blackmail. I couldn’t no understand how if I just gave up only a few things I would be consider immature but there were other MS doing a lot less than me. I didn’t want to comment and felt very uncomfortable around the elders. And I know people from school and from other halls would start asking if I was a MS or not. I just wanted to hide in a whole and not come out until everything had been forgotten.
The Hall where I was had 2 Spanish congregations. About 2 years earlier the congregation had split so I knew everyone in the other congregation I had a few of my friends there and knew the elders very well. I ask the PO on the other congregation for his advice. He made me feel better and suggested to move to his congregation that if the other elders were making me feel uncomfortable he would be happy to have me and help me overcome what happened.
I met with the PO and another elder in my congregation and I told him I wasn’t happy and that I was considering moving to the other congregation. Their response was the following: “Listen if move to the other congregation we will take your pioneering away all your privileges and will give you a bad letter of recommendation.” I could not believe it I was being blackmail and these guys were stepping all over me. I had always been respectful to them and that is the last thing I was hoping to hear.
All I wanted was maybe an apology. Perhaps they could have said sure we’ll help you out with some responsibilities and will not hold that against you. I didn’t know what to do but I knew I didn’t want to be around this guys that I have helped out and now threaten me with a bad letter of recommendation. I got up and told the PO listen you do what you have to do you just made my mind I am moving to the other congregation.
They follow through I lost my pioneering and gave me a bad letter of recommendation. The other PO told me that they had no authority to take the pioneering away and that he would help me clear my name. He asked me to write a letter stating everything that happen that he would send it to the society with his observations.
The news quickly spread I went from being liked to bad association. My own friends turn their backs on me when I ask for their support when I told them the facts they told me I was making a big deal out of nothing. That it was best I didn’t get named. Seem like they were mad at me for saying things about the elders that weren’t true but at the same time happy of my situation. I realized I had no friends I could count on.
I fell into depression. My dad that wasn’t a witness at this point wanted to contact Bethel and tell them how they could allow this to happen. I look back and perhaps I was a bit childish but back then I couldn’t help it. Honestly I felt so bad. I begin to see how much I had giving up and had nothing to show for. In fact was now label as bad association.
Months went by and no answer from the WT. High school graduation was approaching I begin to think about a college degree. If brothers view me as bad association why not just go for a college degree that would be something nobody could take away from me. However I had slack off didn’t apply anywhere. I decided to apply to a community college and take some classes. At this point I wasn’t convinced I wanted a college degree but thought that maybe learning would ease my pain. I tried asking advice from an elder that had been in my congregation a few years ago about higher education. All the advice I got was don’t do it. They would ask me: Do you see any brother with a 4 year degree? I didn’t know any in the area so I would say no. There is your answer they would say. What do you mean? If you go to university the chances are very high that you will fall away from the truth.
We got the visit from the CO. This was the same guy that had thanked me about the sketch about the 4 brothers in service in a pioneer meeting. He asked to meet with me. He begins asking about Jose and how his brothers sold him. He ask me if Jose did anything wrong? I said no. He then asked me how long was he in jail? 12 years. So Jose didn’t do anything wrong yet Jehovah allow for him to be in jailed for 12 years. That made him stronger. So in your case there was an injustice it’s been 1 to 1 and ½ years that you are in a similar jail. Sometimes we don’t know why Jehovah does the things he does. Why don’t you reach out become an elder and then you can prevent this things from happening.
I thanked him for his advice told him I would consider it but at the moment I was contemplating taking some classes at a community college and would go from there. Almost a year from when I moved to the new congregation we finally heard from the WT. They say that the bad recommendation can be deleted and send my pioneer card. When the PO tells me about it I thanked him for his help to clear my name. That as much as I am glad I can become a pioneer again that I had enrolled in a community college and that I would like to stick with that for a while. I told him that it took too long I couldn’t stay in limbo without doing anything. He tells me he understands. In the back of my mind I was hoping that along with the pioneer card there was my announcement for being MS but it was too much to ask, the WT doesn’t make exceptions for r&f.
As much as I felt hurt I felt this was a local incident and that injustices only happen at the low level. That at the upper level things like that never happened.
At first my focus was working and classes where in 2 nd priority but after my 2 nd semester I still had a 4.0 so I told myself hey you are not so bad after all focus on school. Before I would schedule classes around my work but after my first year I would schedule work around my classes. Since I didn’t know what I was going to do I miss taking some important classes my first semester that where only available once per year and that set me back 1 year since it was a prerequisite for following classes.
People at the hall still though bad about me but at this point I didn’t care so much I was enjoying college. I felt dirty though. So it took me 3 years to transfer to UC Berkeley. I was giving a full ride and accepted to the college of engineering (EECS). Even though the Regents’ and Chancellor's Scholarship is a big deal for an undergraduate nobody in my family cared. At this time they knew I would be moving to Berkeley. My dad by this time was already a JW and his words were pretty hurtful. He told me: “You know what a college degree is good for? To wipe my ass. I don’t give a damn about a college degree I want you go to the meetings regularly and one day I want you to give public talks.” I told him I would but to please allow me to finish my degree.
I was working full time so I was not causing any financial issues for them. Paying rent at my parents house even though was keep was a way to keep them off my back somewhat. I paid for my schooling with my jobs and scholarships. So they could never threating me with I’ll stop paying for your school. Every time I would go back to vising they would give me a hard time about meetings it was always a fight. I remember telling my mother: ‘Look if I come to visit is to see you guys if you are going to fight with me every time I come I won’t come. I don’t need this and I don’t have to come! I told her that all I was asking is to let me finish school if I don’t go to meetings after I finish school then you can tell me something.’ She understood the fights stopped.
While I was in college away from home I had mixed feelings. I felt good since I liked what I was learning but miserable that I wasn’t regular at meetings and that if big A came I would die. I was tormented I wanted to go to Grad school but felt I was being too selfish. I didn’t quite fit in. I only felt comfortable when we talk technical topics when they talked about girls, porn, etc. I just felt so out of place.
I always told myself as soon as I finish my degree I would go back to the truth that hopefully Jehovah would hold of big A just long enough for me to finish.
I saw a few things in college that shook my faith. Some people pointed out Bible contradictions or the lack of originals. I even came across the UN involvement and silent lambs. However the explication of the library card fixed my cognitive dissonance and a twisted though made me overlooked silent lambs.
I finally graduate. I begin going to the meetings. I had such a hard time at first making all the meetings they felt boring, repetitive. I even had a hard time commenting. Before I went to college I could comment on every single paragraph, but now it seem shallow and saying something obvious no longer appeal to me. I was also seeing some holes in the logic which at times I would try to comment to give them a better reasoning. Brothers could come and thank me for my comments and research I would think to myself what research I was just trying to patch the wholes I saw.
I remember trying to study the evolution or creation book with one of my roommates. We only study a few times because he started Grad school at Cal Tech and moved to SoCal. But when we study and I asked the questions he would looked at me thinking “are you serious you want me to answer is either a stupid question or very obvious.” He refused to answer some questions as they were phrase the only answer was to paraphrase the paragraph. I was a bit embarrassed I remember the book being such a convincing book to disprove evolution but now with some critical skills in place and trying to convince a highly educated individual it felt so short.
So when I went back there were talks about sins and that even if your sins had happen years ago that if you want Jehovah to forgive you must go to the elders. I had done some things in college that would get me into trouble so I decided to come clean. One thing that bother me and I refused to give into it was the details they asked. I thought to myself why does it matter I screwed up I am here because I feel bad and I no longer do those things why do you need to know every single detail.
I knew there were things we could not prove. I was disappointed there where some reasonable questions that were only based on probabilities or mere possibilities nothing concrete and I would bring them to another JW they quickly point out that now we are guided by faith. However it didn’t make sense to me, if an honest individual that doesn’t believe in the Bible wanted confirm some prophesies there was no way to do it. I found that difficult to understand.
I could no longer explain how the truth can change. If there is a new theory and doesn’t explain the old theory one of them has to be wrong. Truth doesn’t change. The only thing left was to force myself to reason well the apostles had wrong expectations so is ok for the society to be wrong from time to time. But it was no longer the absolute truth I once though. I no longer believe we would be the only ones saved. When Jesus disciples asked him about John’s disciples he told them that it was not their business. I begin to believe that other religions would be saved as well.
Giving Bible studies I had a hard time telling the person what to do (should you paint a church? Can you go to your nephew’s non JW baptism?). It sounded so controlling, cultish, I would turn it around when he asked me if he could do those things tell them “is up to you and your conscious.” Even though I knew that if they did those things they would be label as bad association or weak spiritually. I took some brothers to one of my studies I quickly stopped doing that. Their comments sounded so sensationalist every news was turn into the end of the word, and even saying that the great tribulation had started. Like how the great recession was proof that big A was about to start. I would try to tone it down and mention how big A might be here any minute but that there had been periods in history worse like the great depression. I would think to myself we made the mistake of the generation already doesn’t that teach you to stop obsessing about the end. I didn’t want my study to be turn off or turn into a lunatic.
I remember one conversation with elders one time when they inquired how come I had been a pioneer but didn’t become a MS. After I told them the story, their take was well all those privileges at that young age prepared you for UC Berkeley. I kept my mouth shut but I was thinking ‘that is some major BS any success a JW has will be attributed to the great education from the WT.’
I had elders come to me and insist why I wasn’t reaching for more privileges. I didn’t really want the responsibility I was pretty comfortable with what I was doing. Besides I remember the 12 years Jose was in jail so I figure I had some time left. Eventually I decided to reach out. I was surprise the elder told me I need at least 10 hours per month and a Bible study. At first I didn’t think much of it but then it bother me. First it was the first time I heard such a thing I had been recommended before and that never came up, also what if you can’t get a Bible study is not always easy and not up to you entirely. The 10 hours didn’t seem right, I would think it would be enough to go every week and to take out the group out but to have a fix number wasn’t biblical. I could do them without much problem but it didn’t feel right to put requirements beyond what the Bible says.
The COBE on my congregation is a big shot in the area. He was in the assembly committees he was one of the guys that pick the speakers for the conventions. I saw so much ass kissing I was a bit discussed. Takes one to know one (Hopefully I grew out of that). All the elders I met before that had lot of privileges in the circuit were usually pioneers. But not this elder nor his wife (never regular pioneers), I wondered how he got there. He missed a lot of meetings (took a lot of vacations, work related, and assembly meetings) I remember when I gave up my privileges I told him that I didn’t like how he didn’t take care of his congregation, his response was ‘Do you know the members of the GB during summer leave their congregations for months during summer and their congregations are proud of them.’ I told him I don’t care if the GB does it an elder should take care of the congregation if they don’t they should move out of the way and let others do it.
In one conversation with the COBE, I told him that I didn’t like the fact that we put quotas of how much each publisher had to contribute to the hall. I told him that many single moms with several children would have a hard time to come up with the contributions. He said well we pass a resolution and they agreed. I told him the resolution was a mere formality; nobody would dare to say no. He told me that anybody could say no that if I wasn’t happy how come I didn’t say no. I told him that instead of voting so that everyone could see you it should be anonymous so more people would have that chance to say no. I brought it up because we were at a deficit. He then told me look don’t worry about the deficit I can easy donate enough to cover our expenses for many years. The guy makes 6 digits and his wife has a pretty good job too, so he wasn’t bluffing. That is when it hit me. My theory of why he was where he was in the circuit is because of his generous contributions to the WT. I remember auditing the finances for the month of March one month before taxes where due. And there was a donation to the WT for almost $5k from a single individual. I didn’t get to see who made it (the auditor only gets the receipts, I only knew it was a personal check) but nobody else in the hall was in the position to make such a contribution.
I wanted to convince myself that if I was going to become an elder I should study more. I remember the advice one elder gave me long time ago. He told me look if you want to learn about the Bible you better do it while you don’t have responsibilities because once you have them you will not have time to dig deep.
I begin searching the internet found JWN but some of the comments sounded bitter and talk a lot of trash about the WT so I was quickly turn off. I came to read jwfacts and I was impressed by the detailed and the logic and that this apostate knew more about my religion than I. However if you allow interpretation you can do whatever you want. So even if there was a small possibility that our interpretation was correct I would hold on to that saying the FD knows better and is Gods channel.
Eventually I read some pages that talk about Ray Franz and how it changed their lives. I looked in amazon and looked at the reviews. I was surprised that there were mainly 5 starts or 1 starts. Hardly any in between this pretty much made me unease because is not normal. Someone had to be lying or exaggerating, but whom? I decided to look at the 1 stars if they made sense there would be no need for me to read the book. But the 1 stars where full of runts about an old bitter man going after a great organization. The responses to those reviews would be rational mentioning that it must be a different book because they didn’t find any bitterness reading the book. So if I wanted to know who was telling the truth I would have to read the book.
When I first started reading the book I started repeating what the 1 star reviews mention, bitter old man, this guy is lying etc. But once I started checking his references and notice that in fact he had proof of what he was saying and how it made sense and was logical I begin to switch my view. I finish the book in 2 days. I couldn’t believe it, I cried so much. I cried about how he was tread I cried about how I was fooled and about how people are fool by this organization in the name of God. This is when I realize that the FD are ordinary man with no holy spirit. It made me remember when I was 17 and how the elders had treated me and how I always though it only happens in the low ranks never in Bethel.
I started reading books after books trying to find some answers. Did this for several months eventually I realize that there is no absolute truth. The more I learn the more ignorant I felt, the more I read the more agnostic I turned. There are many things I cannot verify and might never know but I no longer lose sleep over it and as much as I like to learn is now low priority in my life.
Eventually the elders came after me I didn’t get df (as long as I keep my mouth shut Bethel says there is no reason to get df) but for my wife’s side is like if I am because we no longer go to meetings. I personally don’t care anymore if they df me.
When I return to the congregation some years back and I was disciplined they took their sweet time. Over 8 months to let me give comments and give talks in the TMS. When we met and allowed me to preach again they told me we’ll meet in 2 months to lift the other things. I waiting 3 months and reminded them their excuse was they were too busy. At 5 months we had the CO visit and I told him I was still waiting on them, he called one of the elders and told him to take care of it. Another two months went by the CO contacted me and asked me if they had met with me I told him no. I assume he called them because we met the following week and I was allowed to give comments and school parts again. This was around 2007 the congregation split shortly after and one of the elders was the COBE of my new congregation.
So I brought that up when the COBE threaten me with a JC if I didn’t meet with them. I had refused to meet with them 2 times already. So I told him ‘Do you think is fair that when I needed you guys help you did whatever you felt like and even the CO had to get involved and now that I don’t want to meet with you not only you have all the time in the world but you are hunting me like a criminal?’ His response was that he was concern about my lack of respect towards the man chosen by Holy Spirit.
I got my wife and 4 of my siblings to see the TTATT (CoC and Captives of a Concept and many debates did the trick). One sister had been inactive for many years but still tormented herself. My parents know the TTATT but they are too comfortable is like their hobby. Was a pretty dark and painful process but so far I couldn’t be happier about the results.
My brother was an elder he was recently df we were in the same congregation. He is the reason I knew they called Bethel the day of my JC and an elder from Bethel told them not to df me. We were both surprised about it. First the COBE didn’t have to called Bethel the elders books is pretty specific after two readjustments to df, and second we don’t know why Bethel said not to df me. This made my brother doubt thinking that perhaps it was God behind it. I remember telling him sure that could be one explication, but how about the person that answer at Bethel is also an apostate.
The last meeting I had with them you can read at http://jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/220471/3/Some-advise-please
I don’t comment much on forums. I like to read them but hardly comment. But for this forum I feel grateful so I wanted to give something back. Please forgive the error and length hope didn’t bore you too much.