by Terry 20 Replies latest watchtower bible
I always understood that before Jehovah breathed the" breath of life" into Adam he was a dead soul ,once he received this" breath of life" he became a living soul. And what reinforced this beleif in me at the time was the scripture that says "the soul that is sinning will die".
just saying
smiddy
Then again I guess that begs the question can" body" and" soul" be synonomous ? I think it obvious that a body( physical) can sin, but can a soul (spirit) sin ? Then again we know that a spirit being (Satan) can sin don`t we. Yes it is confusing isn`t it .
smiddy
jwfacts
This was always a great puzzle to me , what is the difference between a created being (Adam) and one that has materialized from a spirit being (Angels) ,one that can produce sperm to bring forth a pregnancy in a female human being .?.
Sorry to go off topic
smiddy
Excellent post Terry! marking
Adam=red clay
Think: balloon instead.
A balloon needs air to have a function.
A balloon without air isn't much beyond a raw material.
So...
Jehovah created an empty balloon and then puffed it full of air.
The balloon developed a slow leak.
The Watchtower doesn't want the human creature to CONTAIN anything supernatural. JW's want humans to be natural only.
Creatures of a totally different "stuff"=humanity.
The scriptures are supernatural explanations of solutions for natural creatures?
Humans either must gain or REgain status to enter the realm of SuperNature.
Jehovah's Witnesses keep man natural and in nature on Earth.
They are, at best, the pets of God who eat scraps from His table.
A tiny remnant get to become Top Dogs and sleep in the master's bedroom!
In this instance, on humans and animals, they are basically on par w scientists. They only venture beyond science w their god and angels and such.
S
And...um....so....
what does any of that have to do with the Jehovah's Witness flapdoodle doctrine of soul vs spirit?
Your post brings up a lot of contradictions in WT teachings, Terry.
1. Jehovah is a spirit being who is holy, but his holy spirit is an impersonal force. Why is one "spirit" personal and the other impersonal? Where does the Bible teach this distinction?
2. Jesus was the perfect counterpart to Adam, except that Jesus pre-existed his human appearance and Adam didn't. Jesus even says he saw Satan fall from heaven (Luke 10:18). Adam didn't have the advantage of this type of heavenly experience and knowledge.
3. Jesus is somehow Michael, but he wasn't Michael at the same time he was Jesus. All they shared was an impersonal life force -- not personalities. So when Jesus was born, Michael had to go out of existence as a living being. He then came back into existence 33 years later when Jesus died. So are they really the same person?
4. When human beings are resurrected, their personalities don't return to their bodies since the "soul" never existed as a separate entity. Instead, Jehovah recreates them with the same "memories" and "personality." Is this resurrection or re-creation?
I said
'In this instance, on humans and animals, they are basically on par w scientists. They only venture beyond science w their god and angels and such.'
Terry said
'And...um....so....
what does any of that have to do with the Jehovah's Witness flapdoodle doctrine of soul vs spirit?'
Isn't it interesting? The wt isn't really spiritual in it's thinking, even though they have spirit men (angels and a god) populating the universe and the 'heavens' outside of it. The wt appears to see those spirit men as governed by logical/rational laws, similar to the laws of physics. For instance, they dismiss the standard christianity idea that god is everywhere and replace it w the idea that god has a specific location. His action at a distance is by means of his impersonal active force, which it likens to his fingers. He also has jesus and the angels, who he can send to do his bidding.
Also, the way he knows what is going on on this planet is either by messages that are physically brought to him by his angels returning from the earth to his location outside the universe, or by means of his eyesight. His eyesight is excellent, being able to peer through jillions of miles of space and space dust, etc.
The significance of their psudo scientific/psudo rationalist view, imo, is that it tends to attract those of a scientific bent, instead of those leaning toward the spiritual or magical aspects. They attract people who see themselves as rational but also rebeling against popularly accepted knowledge. People who want to step beyond, but still remain solidly evidence based. Those fitting this profile would tend to like the other seemingly fact based wt chronology. As a body, the wt basis could be described as an alternate science, a counterculture science.
This psudorational position is a solid appearing base from which to attack and ridicule the airy fairy standard christian ideas like trinity and immortality of the soul. It enables them to think that now they have the real truth about science and the spiritual.
S
I always wondered how JW's can read Luke 16:19-31 and NOT realize their whole understanding of this topic is wrong.
The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
The beggar dies, angels carried WHAT to Abraham's side?
Wait a minute, where is Abraham? He should be asleep in death because Jesus hasn't died yet, and only those who die after Jesus can go to heaven?
Where is the rich man? What is happening to the rich man? That's right he's being tormented.
Sure it's not a real account. But Jesus reportedly said those things himself. Jesus knowing all things would have known those statements would cause confusion if the concept of an afterlife was false.
