Why is the Harlot not in the lake of Fire?

by rhodesboy 16 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  rhodesboy

  God’s Word for Us Through Jeremiah

  WILL YOU RECEIVE “YOUR SOUL AS A SPOIL”?

  18 We need to remember that what Jehovah has promised as a spoil is our “soul.” Even if a few of his servants perish in the persecution that may come during “the great tribulation ” when the political horns of the wild beast turn against religion, those faithful ones will not really have lost out. Their “ soul ” is guaranteed to live again to enjoy “the real life,” in the new world . (Rev. 7:14, 15; 1 Tim. 6:19) We can rest assured, however, that most of God’s servants who prove faithful at that time will come out of the great tribulation. You can be sure that when God brings calamity against the nations, no faithful one will be among “those slain by Jehovah.” —Jer. 25:32, 33.

  I have a theory based on my interpretation of watchtower literature above and the New World Translation: People (other than witnesses) killed during the destruction of Babylon the Great may be eligible for a resurrection. For the record I have not been to a meeting in 13 years (never baptised either) but my dad still associates with the organisation and on occasion we engage in theological debates. Maybe this could be new light someday - indulge me please.

  God’s Word for Us Through Jeremiah page 112 above states clearly that witnesses could die during the destruction of Babylon the Great. This surprised me until I remembered my pioneer grandfather describing how some older witnesses may die from fright during the Great Tribulation - a notion I dismissed at the time as I felt Jehovah was cheating his servants out of a divine rescue. This may be old light to some of you but when I quoted this watchtower publication to my father he was somewhat dismayed - dare I say disappointed - as were some of my other witness relatives. The thought of dedicating their entire lives to God only to die with the wicked during the Great Tribulation seemed counterintuitive. Let me break it down:

  1) God’s Word for Us Through Jeremiah elaborates on watchtower theology implying that all people who die during Armageddon will experience the eternal second death:

  [You can be sure that when God brings calamity against the nations, no faithful one will be among “those slain by Jehovah.”—Jer. 25:32, 33.]

  2) However it makes clear that some people (witnesses) who die during the initial destruction of Babylon the Great will be resurrected – so the rules regarding final outcomes for the dead for each phase of the Great Tribulation are clearly different!

  3) I believe there is the real possibility that people who are not witnesses that are killed when religious institutions are destroyed may be resurrected as part of the unrighteous alongside the righteous (which the watchtower insists will be there followers) – maybe the organisation may concede this someday. After all it gives hope to potentially millions of people for a second chance at life and makes Jehovah less monstrous in my eyes!

  Why do I think this? Read the following quote and please indulge me some more:

  Revelations chapter 20:10 And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet [already were]; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. New World Translation– BUT WHERE IS THE HARLOT?

  Revelations states that the wild beast (Satan’s political system) and the false prophet (( the seventh world power (Anglo-American power)) are in the lake but the harlot (Babylon the Great)– a separate organisation entirely- is not there!

  She (Babylon the Great)with all her millions of souls is not in the lake – this may be significant if you agree with my theory!

  Satan ultimately is cast into the lake (second death) and he is the god of Babylon the Great so one could argue his demise will be the end of all false religious endeavours in opposition to Jehovah but that only happens at the end of the 1000 year judgement day. Yes Babylon the Great was destroyed with fire and yet she is not in the lake – she couldn’t be there because her God is still alive misleading people during the final,bitter, burning judgement at the end of the 1000 years.

  I am not saying that people will build false religious institutions again after Armageddon – the bible clearly states that the infrastructure of false religion (temples, institutions) will be destroyed with fire indefinitely (Rev: 16:17 NWT).

  I believe the absence of the harlot from the lake of fire indicates that the humans who make up Babylon the Great (temples are meaningless without worshippers) were never put there to begin with – they died during the Great Tribulation before Armageddon and are eligible for a resurrection. The wild beast represents all humans who politically were in opposition to Jehovah under the banner of their respective kingdoms (countries) – who need I remind you destroyed the harlot! The harlot is portrayed as a separate entity to the wild beast & the false prophet.

  I have read the parable of the sheep and the goats in the October 15 th 1995 Watchtower and believe this supports my interpretation of the biblical scripture. The Watchtower by its own admission says Jesus will start his judgement after the start of the Great Tribulation and determine who is worthy of everlasting life – I believe this will only happen at the start of Armageddon.

  Your thoughts would be appreciated…
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  Theocratic Sedition

  It took them 93 years to throw Russel under the bus, imagine how long it will take them to revise their doctrine on Babylon the Great.
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  coffee_black

  Because she is sitting on the laps of the Governing Body.

  Coffee
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  sir82

  You sound like you would fit in with one of the Milennial Dawn groups. Russell's idea of Armageddon was far less bloody than Rutherford's, or that of the current JWs. As I recall, he taught that many millions who were not IBSA would survive and live on the paradise earth.

  And, as I further recall, that was the idea behind "millions now living will never die". There were only a few thousand Bible Students to spread the word - there's no way they could have grown to "millions" between 1920 and 1925.
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  blondie

  I always understood that the millions were not WT members. All WT members then were considered to be going to heaven and were limited to 144,000 but the rest of humanity were going to live on earth and be taught then tested and judged. This did change of course.
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  sd-7

  I think I follow your reasoning on this. See, the harlot is destroyed by the governments (the wild beast), which is a human entity. No human entity has the authority to destroy people everlastingly, even if God put it in their hearts to carry out the destruction. So your hypothesis is not unreasonable. Destroying the religions is just part of clearing the way for the Kingdom and all that, and is clearly a judgment, but if God was going to destroy every member of a religion permanently, it stands to reason he would do it himself, like he's doing with the governments.

  Of course, the potential flip side to this is, the harlot was eaten up and COMPLETELY burned with fire. So there'd be nothing left. Maybe the religions will get completely dismantled and folded into the governmental chain of command, via violent means (hence the devouring of the fleshy parts). That said, any false religious survivors, if you will, would just get lumped in with the wild beast. But people who were killed already...perhaps they could get a second chance.

  Or it's all the ramblings of a madman. I forget which.

  --sd-7
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  Jeffro

  People (other than witnesses) killed during the destruction of Babylon the Great may be eligible for a resurrection.

  Sure, why not. I love fan fiction.
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  transhuman68

  That's an awful lot to get out of a 2,000 year old book- but hey, whatever floats your boat! Clues to the harlot's identity are given in Revelation 17:9,18...
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  Nambo

  The Harlot Babylon the Great, isnt Rome or false religion, this is just one of the many things the JWs got wrong, (false religion doesnt have a "Kingdom over the Kings of the Earth" and it doesnt control world banking).

  The "Great City" isnt Rome, its Jerusalem, compare Matthew 23 with Revelation 18 regarding blood guilt and the death of the Prophets, its the same Jewish rulers and the same blood guilt Jesus attributed to them.

  Now, the reason Jerusalem wont be thrown in the Lake of Fire I would guess, is that the Lake of Fire means permanant destruction, though Jerusalem will be destroyed as it was before, it will not be a permanent destruction, but God will rebuild it as his City.
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  rhodesboy

  Thanks for feedback. sd-7 you have expanded on my logic - much appreciated. I agree that there is no precedent for human entities executing everlasting judgement on other humans. The bible records instances where God used his servants to execute the wicked but not in an everlasting way - such as when the tribes of Israel subjugated Palestine or Cyrus conquered Babylon - however could this be a new precedent? I would appreciate some more substantiated theological musings to support or refute my theory.