NVM
A truce between Atheists and Non-Atheists?
by palmtree67 699 Replies latest jw friends
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rather be in hades
lmao maybe da troof really was a unifying force
i kid
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AGuest
Okay, this really seems to be going nowhere (peace to you all!). Perhaps what I'm about to post will get it "unstuck"... one way... or ther other. Perhaps not. HERE's the "thing"... and this IS the truth (even if some want to act like they don't "see" it):
There really is no problem "between atheists and non-atheists" on this board. Not such that call for a truce of any kind. Indeed, in comparison to all of the topics discussed and threads opened and participated on, ones like this are miniscule... and the people who participate/engage on them are really only a handful. And, let's all admit it... we are usually the same handful. While we may consider others to be "usual suspects," I've no doubt dear Simon and Angharad (peace to you, both!)... and some mods (peace to you, as well!), consider ALL if not most of us "usual suspects."
In truth, as with many places OUTSIDE this board... atheists and non-athiests HERE actually "reside" together in [relative] peace, for the most part. Topics range from the silly to the sublime and most have absolutely nothing to do with differences this thread is targeting. But let's be real - there ARE some problems, even though small in comparison to the "big picture" of this forum... and they are that:
1. Some atheists have a problem with SOME believers (and other folk).
2. SOME believers have a problem with SOME atheists (and other folk).
3. SOME atheists have a problem with a certain believer in particular... andwith any BELIEVER who agrees with, support, befriend, or even confess affection for... a certain believer in particular. We should also note, though, they don't [seem to] have the same problem with any NON-believers who support, befriend, or even confess affection for that certain believer (except perhaps one but that's only because they're not really sure that one IS a non-believer, although such one repeatedly states it, but since she empathizes with that believer a little more than they wish, well, that it just can't be true).
4. Such atheists claim that their problem is based on the particular believer's beliefs, but their comments often seem to indicate that more is involved, which causes believers to get more involved. Regardless, these non-believers have a problem with "something" (and they admit that) and that something is most related to the particular believer (which they also admit).
5. SOME (certain) non-believers BELIEVE that a particular believer has a problem with them... because of how that particular believer responds to their comments about or sometimes to that one, but that really is not the case - that believer really doesn't have a problem with ANYONE, non-believer OR believer... unless and until they make it personal. As long as they keep about "beliefs", then such believer considers it an "occupational hazard." That believer does have a problem, then, with how SOME (certain, specific) non-believers treat other believers due to their problem with that believer.
What do to? Can a "truce" really be reached, if even for a short while? I personally think there can be, if just a few things, only three (3), actually, are remembered by ALL:
1. This is not only not an academic or otherwise formal setting, in any way, size, shape, or form, but a SOCIAL discussion board, and nothing those who wish to make it more "formal" is going to change that. That is not the purpose of this forum.
2. This is NOT a public forum (contrary to what some may "believe"); to the contrary, it is a PRIVATE forum... and with the exception of the Owners, everyone is here by permission OF the owners. It is NOT "our" board, but THEIR board. In that light:
3. ONLY THE OWNERS can... and so should... say who can, can not, should and should not post here... as well as what they can, can not, should, and should not post here. Since then, all ARE here by implied... OR EXPLICIT... invitation of the Owner(s)... and some, including myself are here by the latter, although such may not be known to all... no one else should think they have the "power" to state otherwise, and so should refrain from stating, implying, insinuating, alluding to, or demanding that someone NOT be here... or post what/as they do.
4. The "purpose" of this site (which really should be researched... as assumptions, presumptions, confusion, and downright wrongfulness as to that seems to be rampant). Having been here awhile (almost from the start)... and on at least one predecessor site, I feel comfortable stating that the purpose of this site, as I understand it, is to give a voice of FREE SPEECH (to the extent such does not violate forum rules) to former and current Jehovah's Witnesses due to the LACK of free speech afforded by the WTBTS... to both its current members and former members, their families, friends, and other loved ones... which lack not only suppresses free will and the RIGHT to choose... but the right to pursue one's faith should that be outside the boundaries and doctrines OF the WTBTS. It is NOT a site that foments atheism OR faith. It is a proponent of neither, but a champion of both. Which is why it has been so successful.
And that's it. That's really all I have to say on this matter. It's an easy enough thing to do, a truce... if not an all-out "cease fire"... if these things can be remembered. I want to have hope that all WILL remember these things; I am not sure I can, though... because I've learned that there are some folks who, upon "coming to dinner"... forget that they are guests. For some, such is forgotten at the doorstep. For others, after some time.
We ARE all guests, however... no matter HOW long we've been here. Whether for years, a decade, or more... or just a few days/weeks/months. Only two here are not guests, but owners. Householders, if you will. And until the householder puts out the pineapple*... or walks one to the door... one should feel "at home" and do their thing, but always observing the "rules" of the "house." Because, again, one really is... just a guest.
Peace.
A slave of Christ... and a guest of JWN...
SA... aka "AGuest"...
*On a tour of The Oaks Plantation in New Orleans we were told that the pineapple, thought to be a symbol of hospitality dating back to Columbus, was also a means for the host(ess) to inform their houseguests that it was time for them to leave. Per the story, if one woke up to a pineapple in their room... or, more pointedly, on their breakfast tray... that was indication to them that they had overstayed their welcome and the time had come for their visit to end.
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still thinking
For some reason you want folks to believe you need to and so are spying on the other site.
LOL...spying? It's an open forum for all to read. Its been promoted here for all to visit. Spying...lol
I don't feel like I'm spying on anything. (can't speak for anyone else)
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still thinking
While we may consider others to be "usual suspects...aguest
Firstly...I don't consider this...this is your own expression. I am not part of that 'we'
Just wanted to point that out before I continue to wade through your post...
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still thinking
3. SOME atheists have a problem with a certain believer in particular ... andwith any BELIEVER who agrees with, support, befriend, or even confess affection for... a certain believer in particular . We should also note, though, they don't [seem to] have the same problem with any NON-believers who support, befriend, or even confess affection for that certain believer (except perhaps one but that's only because they're not really sure that one IS a non-believer, although such one repeatedly states it , but since she empathizes with that believer a little more than they wish, well, that it just can't be true).
I take issue with what is being said and claimed. Regardless of who they are.
For example...it someone completly new came on the forum and started teaching people about dragons being Jesus I would take issue with what they say. (I am using that as an example since it is you making the point)
I think some people think they are being targeted or something because of WHO they are rather than WHAT they say and claim.
I do not speak for any other atheist. Just wanted to clarify that your point does not pertain to me.
5. SOME (certain) non-believers BELIEVE that a particular believer has a problem with them ... because of how that particular believer responds to their comments about or sometimes to that one, but that really is not the case - that believer really doesn't have a problem with ANYONE, non-believer OR believer... unless and until they make it personal. As long as they keep about "beliefs", then such believer considers it an "occupational hazard." That believer does have a problem, then, with how SOME (certain, specific) non-believers treat other believers due to their problem with that believer .
How do you KNOW what a non believer believes?
I don't necessarily know what other atheists believe and what they don't.
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NewChapter
I think this has been a really great thread, for me at least. This is what I will take from it.
I don't expect things to by flowers and rainbows, because this is a passionate subject with very different and conflicting views. I expect there will always be some tension. I will do my best to not respond to provacative posts that seem to have the purpose of only stirring up the emotions, dividing people, laying down artificial borders, creating us and them mentality and so forth.
I'm also going to do my best to ignore insults for the sake of insults, or insults wrapped up pretty. It's just meant to increase the emotional tension, and up the stakes. A flash point. I may address certain things, but will try to do so frankly and without a lot of unneeded negative spin or emotion.
Some perceived insults can just be allowed to pass. In the heat of debate, it can happen, and in perspective, it really isn't that big a deal. We all get over involved at times. This is different than provoking for the sake of provoking---but is almost accidental.
I'm so glad that Palm started this thread. I hope others got something positive out of it, and that by discussing it we have redefined how we will deal with these things in the future. There is no one answer, but I think I found the one I will go with for a while.
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AGuest
LOL...spying? It's an open forum for all to read. Its been promoted here for all to visit. Spying...lol
That's what makes such spying so absolutely ridiculous, Still: anyone can see what's there... any time. Oh, but that's right: you posted that. Excuse me...
I don't feel like I'm spying on anything.
You wouldn't, dear. Even if you were.
(can't speak for anyone else)
Let's all be thankful for that, shall we?
A slave of Christ,
SA, who happen-stance to read a thread she hadn't before, where you and a couple few others were actually asking as to the link, loudly bemoaning even that you hadn't received it or been "invited" (which was also ridiculous since (1) all were invited; and (2) you claim absolutely no interest at all in what I/we post...). Curious, that, in light of your claims here - "We aren't interested in what you post... you didn't invite us to your new site... where is your new site... I'd never look at your new site... Hey, it says on your new site...". Some o' ya'll... hoo-whee, go figure. 'Cause you confuse the HECK outta me sometimes. Nahhhh... you don't. You confuse yourselves...
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still thinking
I agree...It's been a good thread. Thanks Palmtree.
Very thought provoking.
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still thinking
(can't speak for anyone else)...still thinking
Let's all be thankful for that, shall we?...aguest.
And why would that be Aguest?
Actually, that is your perception that I was bemoaning...I was actually taking the piss. The thread, (if I think it is the one you are referring to) was shamelessly promoting your site. I was joking that I hadn't been invited. Because OBVIOUSLY I didn't and wouldn't expect an invite to a weird ass forum that I have already made clear I disagree with the ideas on. Or, maybe it was another thread where outlaw mentioned the site? Or maybe it was the thread where tec sent out an ivite to all...I don't know, there has been so much promotion here it is hard to keep up with it all.