A truce between Atheists and Non-Atheists?

by palmtree67 699 Replies latest jw friends

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    No...I chose to accept EVIDENCE as it presents itself. Putting faith in 'men' is a spiritual concept. You are defining what I do by your standards.

    The word evidence is man-made, according to secularism. You must put faith in a man made system. You cannot get out of this as is the case with all atheists. Putting faith in men is not a spiritual concept at all. Have you ever done the exercise where someone catches you falling backwards? You have to put faith in them and you show that faith by falling backwards without any evidence that the person behind you will catch you. You will be forced to rely on methodologies set in place by men such as logic and reason to determine your risk vs reward.

    It is complicated I am still learning about it....but I have already learnt enough to know it is true...and I don't rely on faith in A PERSON. Science isn't about what A PERSON says. It is tried and tested by many people. And all of them are attempting to disprove the claim to see if it stacks up. If the idea stacks up after rigorous trial and attempts to disprove it by knowledgeable people why would I tell them they are wrong? It is not faith. It is evidence.

    True evidence in this regard is seeing evolution in action and being able to determine that with your own methods, independently of others. Could you have come to the conclusion of evolution by yourself? Without any outside help? No, you need the peer review process of the scientific community. You are constantly falling backwards for THEM, but not for anyone else. If God is real he would be jealous. You do not lack faith, you lack faith in gods, which forces you to have faith in something else. That's the thing about faith, it's a human trait, it's in all our genetics and it has to go someplace. It's a process of risk and reward. Faith is integral to the process of growth and evolution. As an atheist you must put faith in men. This is what I call a "faitheist." You ride off the coat tails of greater people than yourself and then criticize others for not doing the same. You are not a peer in the peer review process, but yet you do not question the methods of determining the way of which one qualifies to be part of it. This is FAITH in a man made process that has been demonstrated to show worth to the external world. Again, faith in men is NOT a spiritual concept, but explicitly a non spiritual concept.

    -Sab

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    It makes it all fit? No. It doesn't answer anything.

    We have a winner!

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    And, yet again, I see ignorance of the scientific method is still alive and well...

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Well that's quite handy! LOL. It makes it all fit? No. It doesn't answer anything. I think you just threw this in there to avoid the question, and set the conversation on yet another topsy-turvey path.

    The free will debate is a dead horse. It's clearly obvious that unbelievers do not even see free will as a reality. They preach the illusion of free will, but it reminds me of the Cypher character in the Matrix. He knows that the Matrix isn't actually real, but yet the reality is so believable that he doesn't see a difference as long as his memory is erased.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5y68ErffgM

    Why say free will is an illusion and then argue about choice at all? We either do or we don't. I say we do, but that it's dosaged out by a higher power as it's a very potent drug. We could be given a straight injection, but we likely wouldn't survive the process. Everything in this existence has a gradual growth process. Free will is grown like a tree:

    The tree on the mountain is visible from afar, and its development influences the landscape of the entire region. It does not shoot up like a swamp plant; its growth proceeds gradually. Thus also the work of influencing people can be only gradual. No sudden influence or awakening is of lasting effect. Progress must be quite gradual, and in order to obtain such progress in public opinion and in the mores of the people, it is necessary for the personality to acquire influence and weight. This comes about through careful and constant work on one's own moral development. I CHING 53

    -Sab

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    I see some people still think 1+1 = potato

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    Exactly, so why does any atheist get offended when they are referred to as organic robots? It's not an insult it's a logical description of humanity without a connection to a spiritual framework.....sab

    I don't get offended by that...I just think it is wrong.

    Firstly...Robots are created by humans....I don't beleive we have been created. The evidence for evolution is too strong.

    And secondly...its only a logical description based on your world view that spirituality is real. I do not view the world that way.

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    You are constantly falling backwards for THEM, but not for anyone else. If God is real he would be jealous. You do not lack faith, you lack faith in gods, which forces you to have faith in something else

    I will believe in your god if I see evidence. Otherwise...why your god? Why not someone elses god that also has no evidence to support its belief?

  • NoStonecutters
    NoStonecutters

    Entirely is obsessed with potatoes. He is trying to ridicule me on another thread using his "clever" potato card.

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    LOL Nostonecutters....I have to admit 1+1= potato always makes me giggle....sad I know...lol

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    Entirely is obsessed with potatoes. He is trying to ridicule me on another thread using his "clever" potato card.

    It is clever. And I wasn't trying. You do a great job of ridiculing you, I am really not putting much effort into it.

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