Blatantly Stupid Contradiction

by The Searcher 13 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    w85 12/1 p. 9 par. 4 Declared Righteous "for Life"

    "Since they had been "sold under sin" by their forefather Adam, his descendants could do nothing to relieve themselves of this crushing debt. (Romans 7:14) Death of the debtor alone could wipe it out, "for he who has died has been acquitted from his sin." (Romans 6:7)

    So, on the the one hand we have a "crushing debt" which we ourselves can do nothing about, but on the other hand, we can - simply by stopping breathing. Wonderful logic!!!

    Oh, oh, a very slight problem is created by the "inspired writers" of this corrupt thinking, namely, that Christ's ransom sacrifice and his suffering were totally meaningless, because our own deaths wash our sins away!!

    Definitely inspired teaching - but inspired by whom????

    Interestingly, the reference above to Romans 6:7 has been deleted from the Watchtower CD ROM Library. Why????

    "Test the inspired expressions........."

  • unstopableravens
    unstopableravens

    yeah romans 6:7 is not talking about a physical death anyway if they woube read 1-11 it easy to see it talking about dying to sin

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    Am I missing something? Here is what I got from my CD Library:

    A Merciful Credit Arrangement

    4 In the Scriptures, sins are likened to debts. (See Matthew 6:12, 14; 18:21-35; Luke 11:4.) All men are sinners and are, therefore, heavily in debt before God. "The wages sin pays is death." (Romans 6:23) Since they had been "sold under sin" by their forefather Adam, his descendants could do nothing to relieve themselves of this crushing debt. (Romans 7:14) Death of the debtor alone could wipe it out, "for he who has died has been acquitted from his sin." (Romans 6:7) No good works done during a sinner's lifetime could buy back what Adam lost, nor even give him a righteous standing before God.-Psalm 49:7, 9; Romans 3:20.

    Romans 6:7 is there.

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    The point being missed is that the discussion leading up to this statement in Romans 6:7 is about baptism, not about literal dying. The only "dying" that is being referred to is Jesus' death and the baptized believer's symbolic death by means of baptism.

    When a person gets baptized as a disciple of Christ he, in effect, shares in Jesus' death and resurrection. The act of going down into the water is comparable to dying. And coming up out of the water equates with resurrection to a new life. This is the necessary being 'born of water' that Jesus mentioned in John chapter 3.

    Jesus' death has power to cover over sin, and the act of faith that is involved in the believer's getting baptized allows him/her to share in the benefits brought about by Jesus' death and resurrection.

    When Paul says that 'he that has died has been acquitted of sin,' he is referring to the living disciple that has been baptized. The term "acquitted" (or "justified" or "declared righteous") would not normally be appropriate when referring to a dead person. But since a baptized disciple is someone who has symbolically "died," its use by Paul is appropriate here.

    That is not to say that a dead person won't benefit by Jesus ransom. The ransom makes possible a future bringing back to life of dead people. Otherwise, such a person would stay dead as the wages of sin. But such a resurrected person will afterwards have to exercise faith in Christ in order to be "declared righteous" and continue living. But Romans chapter 6 is not discussing the resurrection of dead people.

    Thus, in connection with non-disciples that have died, it is not their death that "acquits" them, it is the ransom that will temporarily 'release' or 'free' them from what would otherwise be an unending sentence of death. However, if one accepts the ransom provision as a given, then one could say that 'death acquits,' since it would lead to benefitting from the ransom as far as a resurrection is concerned.

    From the Society's standpoint, the problem they have is that they say the discussion in Romans 6 about baptism only applies to the 144,000. This is why they never use this chapter when discussing baptism. The WT maintains that only the 144,000 are "declared righteous." Everyone else is only 'declared righteous as friends of God' (Which is one big mumbo-jumbo, distorted lie - but I guess they have to come up with something for everyone else.)

    Incidentally, in connection with the verb dikaioo (Strong's #1344) which appears in Romans 6:7, The Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek NT says about its use in Romans 6:7, "To justify, to declare to be in the right. Here the word means either to be declared to be free from sin or to be acquitted from sin."

    I might add, it was Romans chapter 6 that led me to understand what the "scrolls" of Revelation 20:12 were.

  • prologos
    prologos

    it is still possible that paul drifted in out of symbolism in the NT. In the mosaic law context, clearing a guilt(sin) often involved death ---eye for an eye--, the killing of an animal to relieve the land of Guilt in the situation of an unresolved murder case. A punished murderer had paid his dept to society. Literal dying would legally not allow for continued persecution. the problem for wt arose with the "resurrection for judgement" how to condemn a person that has died for his past sins if they are forgiven by his dying? in come the "new sins, the imperfection" commited against the "new scroll" laws in the millenium. convolutions.

    my conclusions: if the bible is legit, those that die, rest in peace. they paid the price, the wages. Any hope for everlasting future life is based on the grace of God through Christ.

  • Ding
    Ding

    The WT doesn't believe in a substitutionary atonement -- forgiveness of sins being purchased by the shed blood of Christ.

    They see the "ransom sacrifice" as the ultimate act of obedience to Jehovah, something all JWs should be prepared to emulate.

    This view fits in with their view of life as a constant loyalty and endurance test.

    In their view, it's all about works, not the free gift of eternal life.

    A further thought...

    Doesn't the WT argue that Christ's body could not have been raised from the dead because that would mean Jehovah gave back what was sacrificed?

    By the same line of reasoning, if our death is the payment for our sins, wouldn't our resurrection involve Jehovah giving back the payment for our sins?

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    You tell it Ding

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    @ DATADOG

    Sorry for not explaining accurately what I meant; on the Watchtower Library, if you want to find every article which covers a particular Scripture, you go to the Bible and find the verse, e.g. Matt. 24:14.

    You simply click on the verse number (14) and all the references will appear.

    Try it with Romans 6:7, and see what happens - no references to that Watchtower!

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    @ BOBCAT

    Just a little comment on a Scripture which both the Society and my brothers and sisters would rather not discuss, let alone ponder on, because perhaps it just might burst a little bubble regarding a deceased relative who totally rejected a belief in God & Christ's ransom; "as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who donotobey the good news about our Lord Jesus. These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength...." (2 Thessalonians 1:8,9)

    Six Scriptures tell us that Christ will be the judge, but based on Paul's words, I don't hold out any hope of seeing my grandfather in the resurrection. (if I'm there!!) He was dead against anything to do with the Bible. We'll see.

  • Splash
    Splash

    There's a cunning misrepresentation here:

    Rom 6:7 "for he who has died has been acquitted from his sin."

    This should read:

    Rom 6:7 "for he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin."

    The word [his] does not exist in the Greek, it is a spurious addition - read it in the NWT or Interlinear for proof.

    What is the effect of adding this word.

    With [his] added it seems to say that dying will acquit you of your history of sins. this is what JW's teach.

    Without [his] the scripture is telling you that we are dead, so are no longer subject to sinning any longer.

    Ask yourself, does your own death have the same effect/value as that of Jesus death, i.e. it covers your sins?

    Splash

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