Oh Cold Steel I'm itching.
A Mormon becomes a JW in the Feb 2013 Watchtower...
by cedars 56 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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cedars
Cold Steel - if you're going to go in search of archeological evidence that the Book of Mormon is an accurate historical narrative, I would be more concerned with proving that ancient Jewish civilizations once thrived in North America than tracing the route of some journey across Saudi Arabia.
Cedars
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Sauerkraut
@ Cold Steel: do Mormons practice shunning?
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Joe Grundy
This is an interesting article about the Mormons' 'Book of Abraham' and comments on their progress towards 'mainstream:
http://richarddawkins.net/foundation_articles/2012/10/23/mormonism-in-the-mainstream#.ULNF3u_6msM
(Sorry, don't know how to make the link 'clickable'.
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Joe Grundy
Thanks!
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D_Rolling_Kearney
Ah, this is the thread I was looking for; the proper place to post my response to the article mentioned in the OP:
NOT ON
SCURRILOUS TALES, BUT ON FACTSA response to the Nov. 8th, 1995 Awake! articles on "Mormonism"
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D_Rolling_Kearney
During the 70s the LDS church got caught up in a wave of end time talk and became much stricter ( my mum wouldn't drink coke or buy sweets called wine gums in case she became addicted to caffeine or got a taste for alcohol by taste association ) especially regarding sex and music ( reaction as well to the era!) but it's gradually winding back those elements to a more 'do what you want in the bedroom' approach rather than 'sex only for kids and force yourself to find it icky while doing it' default.
Perhaps the people you knew only started to pay attention to these things during the 70's, but they have been a part of Mormonism since the early days. A quick search of the Doctrine & Covenants reveals that preparation for the Second Coming of Jesus Christ was always taught as important, and this is scripturally connected to what many refer to as the Apocalypse, or a destruction that precedes it. The health laws which condemn harmful substances are contained in the Word of Wisdom (D&C 89). They were revealed in 1833 and never changed. It is true that there was a special focus on music during the 70's, and that probably did follow the concerns of the general culture, but they were not, however, unique to the era, as LDS Church leaders warned about the content and effect of popular music much earlier than that. LDS scriptures also make a distinction between good and bad music.
There is a tsunami of intellectual disaffection within the LDS church right now that is breaking it from within.
This claim is false, according to available data from non-LDS sources:
"Many Latter-day Saints, however are finding answers that confirm and renew their faith, according to research conducted by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life for its landmark "Mormons in America" [PDF] study last year. A significant majority — 77 percent — of those who identify themselves as members of the LDS Church "believe wholeheartedly in all the teachings of the church." That number is higher among respondents who have attended college (81 percent), and even higher (85 percent) among those who are college graduates.
Some Latter-day Saints, however — 22 percent in the survey — find that "some teachings of the LDS Church are hard for me to believe." That number declines as individual educational level increases." [Source]
See also, Latter-day Saint Social Life: Social Research on the LDS Church and its Members, edited by James T. Duke, especially chapter 9: Secularization, Higher Education, and Religiosity, which presents similar findings.
It is so blatantly untrue ( historically) that increasingly the core members admit they stay because even if wrong its still a very safe and fulfilling lifestyle…
Two problems here.
1) It is absolutely false to claim that the LDS Church is "blatantly untrue ( historically)." In fact, there is much to support its claims, some of which was laid out about 60 years ago in the book (which you can read online), An Approach to the Book of Mormon. There are many more places you can go for evidences supporting the Book of Mormon, and I have provided several in my response to the Awake magazine. You have to do your homework instead of merely making unverifiable claims.
2) It would be ridiculous to stay in an organization you believed was wrong, though I realize there are some who do fall into this category you describe. How "safe" is a false organization? Just ridiculous. If you still believe in God, go find out where He wants you to be!
Just trying to keep people honest here. The worst kinds of arguments are those based on false information. Don't want to be Mormon? Great. Just don't go around telling lies about us, intentionally or otherwise.
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LisaRose
I personally don't care if the Mormons are historically accurate or not, however many of the teachings do seem preposterous and far fetched. If you want to believe Joseph Smith found golden tablets and spoke to a salamander, well, I guess that's your choice, I really don't care. More important to me is that it is a high control religion. The culture of the JWs and the Mormons have a lot of similarities. Having studied cults to free myself from the bonds of the JWs, I know enough to know one when I see one.
We already have a Mormon who comes here to try and drum up interest in your cult, and that's one to many in my book. There is absolutely nothing you could say that would cause me to be interested in your religion.
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Qcmbr
D rolling I am a mormon (yes they still havent processed my resignation). I am in contact with many ex-mormons and many leaving but active members. If you insist on claiming im lying I will post the stuff both you and cold steel do not want to hear. The lds church is being decimated in the uk (since I last posted on this subject I have had a couple leave and their son come and borrow borrow Quinn's book on magic in the early church. I have had 2 other members express doubts about the 'truth' but saying that the church is still good and another internet contact say she's had to change her stance though she still has a testimony of god. The church cannot suffer this level of disaffection as it doesnt baptise enough. In the time my local church has lost 25 core members it has baptised 3 and retained 2. The branch up the road has had 3 core members leave in the last year.of those who left and I have talked -about 15 - 10 said they left because of specific historical things , 2 said they left to live life and 3 didnt agree with current doctrine regarding homosexuality.
Do the research, man up and face the facts. The church we both love and gave our souls to is not the truth. It hurts like hell but dressing up like a baker in a huge fancy building learning masonic symbols is rank silliness. Endless meetings, empty prayers, pretending to heal while knowing a real miracle would make national news, reading stories about huge civilisations for whom there is no evidence and plenty of counter evidence, giving money to a corporation who donate about 1% to actual good works and pay the top leaders vast amounts and studying material that is regularly disproved by science - this is the life we try to pretend is the truth. As someone who is not your enemy I beg you to let go the emotion and start asking the real, tough questions.