What strand of Christianity gave birth to WTBTS?

by Band on the Run 65 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Chariklo

  I agree, Terry. That's exactly right.

  They do have as their multiple ancestors though the various anabaptists groups whose markers included the demand that only adults could be baptised, and that baptism could be performed again and again, instead of the once for all time indicated in Jesus' instructions to his disciples.

  At the root of all these groups, though, is the lust for power that you define, and sheer cunning arrogance (such a feature of JW's) as they insist that they can reinterpret God's requirements. They make God less and less accessible to ordinary people, insisting on an elite and exclusive group who qualify through total conformity to a norm they define.

  The big question seems to be, did they, including Russell, have any degree of self-awareness? In other words, were they cynically manipulating the gullible for their own ends, or did they, insanely, convince themselves in a form of megalomania?
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  designs

  Chariklo- Good question. You know the Leadership has some moment of reflection on their authority in the Proclaimer's Book when they gave a slight crticism of Rutherford, they knew what an ass he really was and chose to soft peddle it in their history book.
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  Perry

  i rather think it all goes back even earlier. Elements of their teachings are reminiscent of the Albigensians and Cathars

  Chariklo,

  Those groups are diametrically opposed to cults like JWs and Catholicism in that they were staunch believers of salvation by grace through faith in CHRIST ALONE.

  That is the litmus test. JW's, Mormons, and the Popes all claim there is no salvation outside of their organization-priesthood-Ark, etc. . All bible-cults claim something similar to this. It is belief in this claim that damns them, because their association becomes an idol in that the group itself becomes a sharer in the salvation event....something God would NEVER share.

  True believers can have legitimate differences but not the singularity of the Object of their faith/salvation. From the apostles until this very day there are many who hold to this orthodoxy.
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  apostatethunder

  Albigensias or Cathars were quite a radical heresy, they didn’t recognize any authority secular or Roman, the physical world was evil, and grace was nowhere to be found, pretty much as in WT world.

  “My dad once told me he didn't know what Jehovah's Witnesses were for, but that they were against everything! It was an old country joke“.

  This actually explains everything one needs to know about them.

  “The Nazis thought JWs were Jewish spies“.

  That makes more sense than the Trinity explanation.

  “If you look at this sideways, it looks like a Menorah! That proves it, and there are 10 arrows, representing the 10 lost tribe of Israel! Wow the things you learn on JWD“.

  The Roman Church, and what it represents is what they covet, the promised land.

  People that know their identity and their history, are no so easily enslaved by others, mentally, emotionally or spiritually, much less by others that have nothing to offer in comparison with what they already have.

  The Church was far too powerful to attack it upfront, therefore the need to divide it first.

  There is no such thing as an organization without some sort of power structure, it would be chaotic, and those who separated from Rome always had their own hierarchies, covert and not so covert, and in some cases as with the Witnesses, far more totalitarian than the ones they shamelessly criticise.

  Those who seek to undermine the moral authority of the Church, that with so much care preserved the Bible and Christ teachings throughout the centuries, do so only because they want to enforce their own authority. The question is: what is it they stand for?
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  Perry

  Papal Propaganda Apostatthunder.

  Those who seek to undermine the moral authority of the Church, that with so much care preserved the Bible [choke, cough, choke) and Christ teachings throughout the centuries, do so only because they want to enforce their own authority.

  This is exactly the same accusation of the Watchtower! Bible cults cannot understand the authority of Christ and his total ability to know his own and to provide for their needs single-handedly.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx8PdvOELvY
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  Scott77

  Did everyone forfot anabaptists?
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  Cold Steel

  That is the litmus test. JW's, Mormons, and the Popes all claim there is no salvation outside of their organization-priesthood-Ark, etc. All bible-cults claim something similar to this. It is belief in this claim that damns them, because their association becomes an idol in that the group itself becomes a sharer in the salvation event....something God would NEVER share.

  I can only speak for the "Mormons," of course, but as stated above you claim that we teach that there is no salvation outside of our organization, or church. This is not true. Sects that teach divine excusivitity almost universally condemn everyone who's not a member of their church to hell. Because of the Atonement, however, all men will be resurrected and delivered from the fall. We also believe that hell, while real, is remedial and that men are not condemned because of their beliefs, but because of their actions.

  So what is the role of the church? In our view, it is to provide the divine authority to act in God's name. People say that works don't save, and that's absolutely correct. At the same time, it is impossible to gain Eternal Life without works. This may sound contradictory, but it isn't. It isn't works like baptism, confirmation and the gift of the Holy Spirit that do the saving, for works don't save. Obedience to God's commandments save, and He has commanded baptism and the gift of the Holy Spirit to be administered at the hands of his authorized servants, called and commissioned by Jesus Christ. So if man is to be saved, he is to have faith, baptism and the gift of the Holy Spirit conferred by the laying on of hands. He cannot be saved by faith alone, nor by works alone.

  Those who do not repent of their own sins must suffer for them, even as Christ suffered: "Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer in both body and spirit--and would that I might not drink the bitter cup...." Eventually, after the final judgment, every knee shall bend and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ.
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  apostatethunder

  Perry, facts speak for themselves. Whatever Bible you read nowadays was preserved by the Catholic Church for at least 1500 years.

  The Church has a history of 2000 years, starting shortly after Jesus was alive, the WT just over a century, and in a context of a series of political movements that spread in the late XIX century, I wont even attempt to compare them. That without going into what they stand for and the effect they have in people’s lives.

  Regarding the papal propaganda, how many millions of Catholics were killed only in the last couple of centuries and based on what reason?
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  ÁrbolesdeArabia

  Russell came from the branch of religion "Duende" Poltrogeiste 2,3 or 4? I forget!", the minister who locked up his members in a cave while waiting for Jesus. Than blocked all exists so nobody could escape. Pre-Miller, some Adventist? Forget what religion George Storrs was part of.
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  smiddy

  Didn`t the jehovah`s Witnesses align themselves with the Waldenses at one time ?

  smiddy