Awake February 2013: Where do they find these people?

by bats in the belfry 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    "To better clarify, the meaning of the term "life" in the statement "life originated by means of evolutions", is the differentiation of life as we can appreciate it now, with the complexity of organisms living in our planet."

    If he says that evolution could produce the complexity of species living today, he is begging to be challenged about his belief in a literal Noachian flood. It would be interesting to find out how he explains that the complexities of every species living today had to fit inside a floating box... or evolve from a very few pairs of animals just a few thousand years ago. There is certainly no fossil evidence to support the notion that Asian and African elephants descended from a single species just a few thousand years ago in Turkey. Quite the contrary, fossil evidence shows that animals have been going extinct through recent millenia. And certainly there is no evidence that kangaroos ever lived outside Australia or descended from any "family" of animals from Turkey 4000 years ago.

    When it comes to faith, belief, and religion, he only thinks inside WT lines. Otherwise he would have already realized that Genesis requires that he believe in a more radical and recent evolution that any atheist would propose.

  • never a jw
    never a jw

    Quite interesting how the WT touts the credentials of Tistarelli. He is a professor, he is a scientist, he is the editor of three international magazines, he has writeen hundreds of scientific papers. We even get a picture of the guy. Doesn't the WT teach that universities are a place for sex and drugs, that pursuing higher education is bad because your pursue finacial gain and fame (not so bad if we make you famous through Awake articles), that your time is better invested serving Jehovah. I am confused.

    So the WT finds 2 PhD's who are JW's (Furuli and Tistarelli), therefore PhD's around the world support JW's beliefs and methods, maybe?. How about a more realistic assumption, thousands or likely millions of Ph.D.'s don't support your beliefs and methods, therefore what?

    2 smart guys without or with lousy evidence to support their claims (607 and evolution) versus thousands or millions of smart guys with incontrovertible evidence. Where to go?

  • Room 215
    Room 215

    A degree in the totally unrelated field of Computer Science hardly qualifies Dott. Tistarelli as an expert in paleontology or any other specialized field of study.

  • enigma1863
    enigma1863

    Update: I recently emailed him again:

    01/11/2019

    Hello Mr Tistarelli,

    I stumbled on your video on JW.org. I believe i 'talked' to you before. I have a few questions.

    You compared proof and theory. In my understanding science never uses the term proof. That there is evidence for and against conjectures and hypotheses and only when a hypothesis has gone through the scrutiny of experimentation and peer review does it get to be called a theory. Would you agree with that? I understood only mathematics had proofs since it is based on logic. What do you consider an example of something that has proof? Would you consider Christianity to be a theory?

    Also evolution isn't a theory. Natural selection is a theory I assume you are referring to. That would be like calling pregnancy a theory. For thousands of years we didn't know how where babies come from. We knew birth happened but didn't understand the mechanisms. If someone told you they didn't believe in the theory of reproduction and said god individually created each human being you'd probably think he was ignorant of the science.

    You also said you could distinguish something that was designed. How do you determine if something is designed? If you believe everything is designed how can we compare it to something that is not? Are there exceptions to the rule? Was god designed?

    Are you familiar with christian biologist Ken Miller or former atheist Francis Collins? Both accept evolution by natural selection and both are christian. I never see JW.org interview those Christians.
    I appreciate any insight you have regarding my questions.

    Thank You

    -________

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    Dear Mr _____,

    thank you for your message dated January 11th. I'm sorry for this late reply, but I had a very busy time in the last few weeks.

    From your message I understand you are very interested in the issues related to the beginning of life and you also regularly access our on-line resources.

    Your questions are very interesting and I'm sure you can find a satisfactory answer on the web site jw.org, under the heading "Bible teachings" and subitem "Science and the Bible" (https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/science/) you can select "Evolution versus Creation".

    Alternatively, you can directly address your questions on this matter to a Jehovah's Witness in your area, possibly going to the nearest Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses.

    With my best regards,

    Massimo Tistarelli

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    02/06/2019

    I have contacted them before and they don’t answer my questions but I’m not interested what they believe. I’m interested in what you personally know. They are not a professor at an established university. In fact it appears they discourage any formal education past high school. I expect you are familiar with logical fallacies and studied books on evolution. I’ve read the JWs short publications on the subject and I’m frankly disappointed in the strawman arguments. Can you provide a better source for information. Being a professor you would know using only one source when writing a paper for a class is discouraged. Especially if they are not an expert in the field. If you wanted to fix your car would you go to a lawyer? Lawyers have studied far more than any mechanic but that doesn’t mean they are qualified to fix your car. So why would I go to Jw.org to understand evolution or frankly to find out what you believe. You are an individual not a collective.

    I’d appreciate any personal input

    Thank you
    _________

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    Feb 9, 2019 Massimo Tistarelli

    Dear Mr _______,

    thank you for your feedback. My viewpoint is the same you find expressed in our publications, and email is not a good channel for conversation. However, if you want more information regarding the motivations for our stand regarding the origin of life, you may perform a deeper research on our web site, or consider the extensive bibliography reported at the end of our articles on this subject.

    If you are sincerely interested in understanding the Bible truths, I still encourage you to contact the Jehovah's Witnesses in your area.

    With best regards,

    Massimo Tistarelli

    -------------------------------

    I asked about evolution not the origin of life. Do you understand the difference? I though you were a professor yet you keep directing me to JW.org like it’s your job. I have asked Jehovah’s witnesses in my area and it seems the ones I’ve talked to barely have anything more than a high school education. None of them are professors and none of them seem to understand even the basics of natural selection. They keep referring to the Bible which doesn’t even contain the words “evolution” or “natural selection”.

    Are you familiar with John Stuart Mill? He’s quoted saying:

    “He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion... Nor is it enough that he should hear the opinions of adversaries from his own teachers, presented as they state them, and accompanied by what they offer as refutations. He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them...he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.”

    Do you know both sides?

    Thank you
    -----------------------------------


    (that was the last email I sent him. I dont think I will get another response.)

  • smiddy3
    smiddy3

    What a very interesting thread ,I truly enjoyed it .

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