jeffro , i pictured you as your three eyed avitor saying that lol. he did help me find my keys once! you think thats because im white?
1 John 5:14 - who hears prayers?
by leaving_quietly 21 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Jeffro
jeffro , i pictured you as your three eyed avitor saying that lol.
Yes, it's actually a photo. All people in Kent look like that. (I am mildly curious about how you imagine my avatar would sound though.)
he did help me find my keys once!
Fallacy of hasty generalisation.
you think thats because im white?
No, I'm fairly sure he helps black middle-class Americans to find their keys as well.
(Just realised I typed middle-aged in my previous post. Was meant to be middle-class.)
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unstopableravens
prob like predator, from alien vs predator. thank you for the clearification , i was worried god was racist!
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leaving_quietly
Thanks, Bobcat. I probably should have looked at commentaries and compared translations before jumping to conclusions. I would have answered my own question.
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PSacramento
Regardless of Translation or what may or may not have been ther ein the original letter, we always have to try to take the WHOLE to get the proper context:
1 John 5
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Overcoming the World
5 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
5 Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? 6 This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. 9 If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. 10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. 11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
This Is Written That You May Know
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.
16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.
18 We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. 19 We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. 20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
21 Little children, guard yourselves from idols.
From the WHOLE it is quite clear that it is Jesus that hears and it is also clear that you "get one with the other".
This notion that it is either Jesus or The Father that hears is an artifical one, you "can't get one without the other".
When Jesus hears, The Father hears, when The Father hears, Jesus hears.
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unstopableravens
fake smile. god having sex with his mother lol enough comedy centeral for you!
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trillaz
Thanks PSacramento for pasting the entire passage.
But, please have a look at each and every "he" and "his". Nowhere was "he" or "his" attributed to Jesus. The majority were "his son", and some "he"s; referring to God or the reader.
Then we have verse 20 and how it ends.
20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
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ÁrbolesdeArabia
Great for you to read all the text surrounding any attempt to use one "proof-text". One thing I learned coming to JWN is the secret attempt by the WTS to usurp Jesus Christ's authority over all his domestics on earth. We pray in Jesus Christ's name (he is hearing our prayer according to (John 14:14-16) and delivering our prayer using the the Spirit to plead our cases before our Father in Heaven (Romans 8:26), Jehovah God. Ephesians 6:18 throws some interesting light on this idea:
"Pray in the Spirit at all times and on every occasion. Stay alert and be persistent in your prayers for all believers everywhere."Some where along the line, even though the Watchtower pushes a Neo-Judaism-Christian Hybrid religion, they forget you had to go through the King's court officials to receive a audience with the Royal King. The prayers using Jesus Christ's name by many Witnesses show a lack of appreciation for his authority, giving more praise to "The Governing Body" (time wise as members pray for them, never mentioning in details how the praying person appreciates all Lord Jesus Christ did for mankind, he get's brushed aside for "all the Bethelites have done for mankind".
In Short, Jesus hears the prayer and delivers to our Holy Father Jehovah God, that makes two hearing the prayer or if the Holy Spirit is a person, I can't say 100 percent because that's dogmatic, would it be Three entities that hear the prayer? I am not a Trinitarian, just throwing out this emphasis of the many times the Bible exhorts us to use the "Spirit".
1 John 5:4b, 5 "Who is the person who overcomes the World and will be Saved, he who screams out "Jesus is the Son of God!"
John 14:14 "Because I go to the Father: and whatsoever you shall ask the Father in my name, that will I do: that the Father may be glorified in the Son. Duay Version (Catholic Bible)
John 14: "
12 In most solemn truth I tell you that he who trusts in me--the things which I do he shall do also; and greater things than these he shall do, because I am going to the Father. 13 And whatever any of you ask in my name, I will do, in order that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you make any request of me in my name, I will do it.
15 "If you love me, you will obey my commandments.
16 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be for ever with you--the Spirit of truth.17 That Spirit the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him. You know Him, because He remains by your side and is in you." Weymouth
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designs
Paul and in this case John (if they are even real and not fictious) tried to invent an all encompassing diety, three persons seamlessly connected so if you direct to one all are invloved. You can spend hours each day with hands clasped feeling like you are really connecting to the divine. Clever, that notion has kept the western world shackled and on its knees for 2000 years.
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PSacramento
Thanks PSacramento for pasting the entire passage.
amytime.
But, please have a look at each and every "he" and "his". Nowhere was "he" or "his" attributed to Jesus. The majority were "his son", and some "he"s; referring to God or the reader.
Then we have verse 20 and how it ends.
20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
YOu are trying tomake an artificial distinction where there isn't any.
You can get one (The son) without the other ( The father) or vice-versa if you prefer.
While koine greek can be tricky to translate, especially when writers like John make their writing semi-poetic, the thing is to NOT try to read more than is there and in these verse if you keep going back and forth from He, and Him and so, you cna get easily confused and miss the "big picture" of John theology, which is:
Father and Son, in perfect union and you can't get one without the other.
BUT, if you want to go over that passage, sure:
18 We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. 19 We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. 20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.