If god exists... (page 9)

Xanthippe

StoneWall, I just want to play Devil's Advocate here. If someone put a very clear photo of a ghost on the internet that they said they took in their own home what would everyone say? Fake. How could they prove it was real? Just asking.

transhuman68

@smiddy- John 5:4 doesn't really belong in the Bible; but it helps to explain the passage. It is amazing that the Gospel of John contains this Jewish folklore, or 'local knowledge'- that there was an angel that randomly visited the pool of Beth-za'tha and healed crippled people. I think it is an insight into the 'magical thinking' of an ignorant and primitive people.

StoneWall

Xanthippe,

Oh I love it when someone plays Devils advocate because at times I do it too.
And that is a very valid question you ask. So lets break it down. If someone claims they have a real picture of a ghost then obviously they would not object to others trying to prove their claim. So first thing is they would be willing to let others exhaust every possible avenue available to them to prove it was a fake. That would be step one to me in giving any credibility to such photo.
If after intense scutiny by professionals in many fields, such as Photography, Special effects (specializing in mirrors and lighting etc.) could find no evidence of tampering with such image then my next question would be to ask to see the area or room where the picture was taken.

If there was indeed a "ghost" or something in that area then it should be able to reproduce itself or left residual of some form from its earlier encounter. The principle of displacement would not allow "nothing" to take the place of where something used to be.
In other words if you fill your bathtub to its limit with water, then put a small toy boat in it, it will only displace the amount of water equal to the volume of the boat. No more no less.
So if something metaphysical was there it had to displace some surrounding air or matter of some form to take its place even if for only a brief time.
Even string theory would indicate that something changed in order to accomdate this.
So logically next step would be to get readings of the surrounding air, earth, radioactivity, radiant heat tests and imaging etc. and look for any "metaphysical/paranormal fingerprints" that may have been left behind.
Physical creatures leave something behind everywhere they go even if not intended, such as footprints,fingerprints,blood,mucus, urine etc. so it would only be natural to assume that whatever this "Ghost" was that it left something behind.

And while the tests were being performed also interview the individual(s) and ask every perceivable question that could help shed light onto this claim such as how long did the ghostly form stay? Did it try to communicate either directly or indirectly with you? Did it just disappear or did it head off into a particular direction? Have you ever encountered anything like this before? (Many other questions come to mind but won't list them in interest of time but you get the general idea)

And if after exhausting every scientific test/method available (or currently known to man) and the results were the same about something being there, then I would conclude that a paranormal/metaphysical being was in existence.

Xanthippe

StoneWall

'Physical creatures leave something behind everywhere they go even if not intended, such as footprints,fingerprints,blood,mucus, urine etc. so it would only be natural to assume that whatever this "Ghost" was that it left something behind.'

'If there was indeed a "ghost" or something in that area then it should be able to reproduce itself or left residual of some form from its earlier encounter. The principle of displacement would not allow "nothing" to take the place of where something used to be.'

These are assumptions, StoneWall, we have no clue what a ghost may or may not leave behind. Displacement has nothing to do with this situation. Why should it leave residue? Why should it be able to reproduce itself - is it a scientist-ghost trying to prove something?

StoneWall

Xanthippe,

You are correct in that these are assumptions. Thats why I used the word assume. I never claimed otherwise.

You asked how could they prove it was real? I was just giving you what I would take as credible under the assumption "ghost" were real.
Remember the burden of proof is always on the one making the claim. (In this case someone claiming a picture of a ghost)

Displacement has nothing to do with this situation. Why should it leave residue?

If you can see it with your eye and take a picture its going to displace something to make itself visible.

But once again you could argue no it doesn't because its a ghost. To me this is like saying God can do anything. Then when asking him to appear thats the one thing he can't do or doesn't want to do.

So it would be pure speculation and assumptions on anyones part because noones proven ghost exist.

I've been in many so-called "haunted houses" that friends dared me to go into and never once saw or felt anything unusual. So I can only go on my personal experience. Thus that is why I don't believe in them to this day. Not one bit of evidence that they are anything other than peoples imagination running rampant.

Anyways I'm headed to bed but if you ever see a ghost or goblin,angel or demon, little green men from mars etc send them my way.

Xanthippe

If you can see it with your eye and take a picture its going to displace something to make itself visible

You seem to think this is scientific but I can't find any evidence for it, StoneWall, not in displacement theory anyway. If it even moved air how would you know after the fact?

Remember the burden of proof is always on the one making the claim. (In this case someone claiming a picture of a ghost)

Well what I asked was what if someone put a clear photo of a 'ghost' on the internet, what would everyone say? This was in reply to your post that the 'proofs' people have are always fuzzy photos.

There being no evidence according to photography experts that it was a faked photo, you say you would need 'residue' or the ghost would have to reproduce itself as if it was doing a scientific experiment.

That is the proof you would need. Otherwise, you say, the photographer is imagining it (and a damn good photographer).

Anyways I'm headed to bed but if you ever see a ghost or goblin,angel or demon, little green men from mars etc send them my way - that's a bit ad hominem isn't it?

Night, night.

Ultimate Axiom

I don't blame God for the evil that people do - I blame Him for sitting on his arse while they do it.

The question from Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar seem appropriate here -

Why'd you (Jesus] choose such a backward time in such a strange land?

If you'd come today you could have reached a whole nation.

Israel in 4 BC had no mass communication.

Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know.

tec

But if there were an almighty caring god or even Jesus Christ himself, why would he sit back for so long letting people slaughter, rape and torture eachother? Just to prove a point that Satan has no right to rule but god does?

That is a wts teaching.

And Satan has no power other than what people give him.

He tempts people with where they are weak. Adam and Eve - wanted to eat of that tree even though God warned them that they would die if they did so. All Satan had to do was say the opposite, and they ate.

Christ was weak when Satan tempted Him. Both in the desert (hunger); and also when Peter told him that he would not be killed. Christ did not WANT to be arrested, tortured and killed. He prayed for it not to come to him if there was another way; if not God's will be done. That is why he said to Peter... away from me Satan.

To me god would have a better argument for his right to rule if he actually stepped in.

He does... with those who would hear Him. He sent His Son. His Son speaks, guides, teaches... but in spirit now, whereas in the flesh when he walked in the flesh.

Either way, God has been telling people what they should do for how long now? And people have been going their own way for just as long.

Most people only want God to step in... in regard to other people. They don't tend to want Him to step in and correct them too.

Peace,

tammy

cofty

Either way, God has been telling people what they should do for how long now?

There have been humans on earth now for around 250 000 years. What did he ever do for the first 248 000?

(Please note there was no sarcasm in the above post)

tec

The time it takes to tell one person could in todays world be heard by billions.

Could be done even now... IF... people listened... in spirit. But it is kind of like working a muscle that we have never used; even to those who do have the faith to hear. To those who do not have such faith, they do not believe such a 'muscle' exists to begin with to even attemp to use it.

If you can set aside your doubts on that for a moment, simply consider that God could speak to every person as one... in spirit... within them... without the use of any other technological device at all. Simply on faith. (the muscle we don't have much practice using) That would be some pretty advanced communications. The recievers don't work so well just yet... they need some fine-tuning ;)

Peace,

tammy

If god exists...

Share this