THE SOCIETY SAYS DON'T HAVE CHILDERN!

by new boy 24 Replies latest jw friends

  • new boy
    new boy

    I will never forget the Saturday, I was in field service about 10 years ago. We came to this one house, a man in mid- thirty’s came to the door, we preceded give our sermon The man said “ I ‘m very, very grateful I don’t believe the way you do!”My friend and me looked at each other a little confused. The man said in again “ I really thank God, I don’t believe the way you do.” I said, “why is that?” The man called over his son, the boy was about 10 years old, and the man put his hand on his son’s head, running his fingers though his blond hair. “Because” the man said “ I would have never had the pleasure of knowing my son, if I believed what you folks believe.” I said, “what are you talking about?” Then the man then pulled an old Watchtower from his pocket. “Well” he said “it states right here in your Watchtower,” and he began to read “ In view of the times we are living in, the society feels it might be not best to have children, being so close to the end of the system!” “Yes” he said one time, “ I’m so grateful I don’t believe the way you folks believe!” “Good bye” and he shut the door.

    I had nothing to say

    What could I say?

    HE HAS RIGHT!

  • openminded
    openminded

    It would be neat if someone could find and post that article. Id love to read it.

    om

  • JT
    JT

    great post

    does anyone have the articlE - BASED ON THE DISTRICT CONVENTION

    "Responsible childbear IN THE LAST DAYS"

    THAT is another one dogging kids

    james

  • Reborn2002
    Reborn2002

    YES! If this is legit I would love for someone to find the article.

    Obviously it is from 1992 or prior, since this experience happened over 10 years ago.

    Powerful words... TOUCHING words that SHOULD even reach a JW parent with blinders on. I would think even THEY, when looking at their CHILD, would sense or feel something with that.

    This could be used on current JDubs who have infant children, and to point out they are NOT properly heeding the advice of the Emperor with No Clothes in Brooklyn.

    TO ARMS!! TO ARMS APOSTATES!

    PERSONAL WEBPAGE-
    http://www.geocities.com/latinloverchicago/Jason1.html
    FREELANCE ARTWORK FOR SALE-
    http://www.geocities.com/latinloverchicago/JasonArtwork1.html

  • rekless
    rekless

    I know it is legit, I remember reading it, matter of fact the org. made several like statements from 1972-the eighties.

    My daughter and SIL after having two told me with in the view of the society they decided not to have any more because many at the KH was questioning their faitfulness in thes time of the end.

    Hell is truth seen too late. H.G.Adams

  • metatron
    metatron

    Go back to the book "Children" in Rutherfords' day.

    He tells the "Jonadabs" that having kids is a bad idea
    with the End so close.

    The Society has been peddling this snake oil for decades.

    metatron

  • Axelspeed
    Axelspeed

    *** w88 3/1 18-22 Childbearing Among God's People ***
    Childbearing Among God’s People

    “May Jehovah . . . increase you a thousand times.”—DEUTERONOMY 1:11.
    “LOOK! Sons are an inheritance from Jehovah; the fruitage of the belly is a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a mighty man, so are the sons of youth. Happy is the able-bodied man that has filled his quiver with them.” So we read at Psalm 127:3-5. Yes, childbearing is a wonderful privilege that the Creator Jehovah granted the first human couple and their descendants.—Genesis 1:28.

    Childbearing in Israel
    2 Large families were considered very desirable among Abraham’s descendants through Isaac and Jacob. Even children born to secondary wives and concubines were considered legitimate. This was the case with some of Jacob’s sons, who became founding fathers of the 12 tribes of Israel. (Genesis 30:3-12; 49:16-21; compare 2 Chronicles 11:21.) While God’s original arrangement for marriage was monogamy, he tolerated polygamy and concubinage among Abraham’s descendants, and this worked for a more rapid increase in population. The Israelites were to become “a people as numerous as the dust particles of the earth.” (2 Chronicles 1:9; Genesis 13:14-16) Within that nation would come the promised “seed” by whom “all nations of the earth” would be able to bless themselves.—Genesis 22:17, 18; 28:14; Deuteronomy 1:10, 11.

    3 Obviously, in Israel childbearing was looked upon as a sign of Jehovah’s blessing. (Psalm 128:3, 4) It should be noted, however, that the opening words of this article, quoted from Psalm 127, were written by King Solomon, and much of this king’s reign was a particularly favorable time for Israel. Of that period the Bible states: “Judah and Israel were many, like the grains of sand that are by the sea for multitude, eating and drinking and rejoicing. And Judah and Israel continued to dwell in security, everyone under his own vine and under his own fig tree, from Dan [in the north] to Beer-sheba [in the south], all the days of Solomon.”—1 Kings 4:20, 25.
    Hard Times for Children in Israel

    4 But there were other periods in Israel’s history when childbearing was anything but a joy. At the time of the first destruction of Jerusalem, the prophet Jeremiah wrote: “My eyes have come to their end in sheer tears. . . . Because of the fainting away of child and suckling in the public squares of the town. . . . Should the women keep eating their own fruitage, the children born fully formed?” “The very hands of compassionate women have boiled their own children.”—Lamentations 2:11, 20; 4:10.

    5 Apparently, similar heartrending scenes occurred nearly seven centuries later. Jewish historian Josephus relates that during the siege of Jerusalem in 70 C.E., children snatched food from the mouths of their fathers, and mothers took food from the mouths of their infant children. He recounts how a Jewish woman killed her suckling baby, roasted the body, and ate part of it. Bringing children into the Jewish world in the final years leading up to the execution of Jehovah’s judgments against Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E. and 70 C.E. could hardly be termed responsible childbearing.

    Childbearing Among the Early Christians

    6 How was childbearing viewed among the early Christians? First it should be noted that Jesus did away with polygamy and concubinage among his disciples. He reestablished Jehovah’s original standard, namely monogamy, or marriage of one man to one woman. (Matthew 19:4-9) Whereas fleshly Israel became populous through childbearing, spiritual Israel was to grow through disciple making.—Matthew 28:19, 20; Acts 1:8.

    7 If the expansion of Christianity was to come about mainly by childbearing, Jesus would not have encouraged his disciples to “make room” for singleness “on account of the kingdom of the heavens.” (Matthew 19:10-12) The apostle Paul would not have written: “He also that gives his virginity in marriage does well, but he that does not give it in marriage will do better.”—1 Corinthians 7:38.

    8 However, while encouraging celibacy for the sake of supporting Kingdom interests, neither Jesus nor Paul imposed it. Both foresaw that some Christians would marry. Naturally, some of these would have children as a matter of course. The Christian Greek Scriptures contain several passages that gave the early Christians direct counsel on the upbringing of children. (Ephesians 6:1-4; Colossians 3:20, 21) If elders or ministerial servants were married, they were to be exemplary parents.—1 Timothy 3:4, 12.

    9 The apostle Paul even stated that having children could be a protection for some Christian women. Concerning material relief for needy widows, he wrote: “Turn down younger widows . . . They also learn to be unoccupied, gadding about to the houses; yes, not only unoccupied, but also gossipers and meddlers in other people’s affairs, talking of things they ought not. Therefore I desire the younger widows to marry, to bear children, to manage a household, to give no inducement to the opposer to revile. Already, in fact, some have been turned aside to follow Satan.” Such women would be “kept safe through childbearing, provided they continue in faith and love and sanctification along with soundness of mind.”—1 Timothy 5:11-15; 2:15.

    ‘Tribulation in the Flesh’

    10 It is noteworthy, however, that in his first letter to the Corinthians, the same apostle Paul suggested a different solution for widows. He qualified his advice on marrying, stating that he gave it “by way of concession.” He wrote: “Now I say to the unmarried persons and the widows, it is well for them that they remain even as I am. But if they do not have self-control, let them marry, for it is better to marry than to be inflamed with passion. But she [a widow] is happier if she remains as she is, according to my opinion. I certainly think I also have God’s spirit.”—1 Corinthians 7:6, 8, 9, 40.

    11 Paul explained: “If a virgin person married, such one would commit no sin. However, those who do will have tribulation in their flesh. But I am sparing you.” (1 Corinthians 7:28) With regard to such “tribulation in their flesh,” the New World Translation marginal reference refers us to Genesis 3:16, where we read: “To the woman he [Jehovah] said: ‘I shall greatly increase the pain of your pregnancy; in birth pangs you will bring forth children, and your craving will be for your husband, and he will dominate you.’” In addition to possible marital difficulties, the “tribulation in their flesh” that those who marry would encounter undoubtedly includes problems related to childbearing. While Paul forbade neither marriage nor childbearing, he obviously felt duty bound to warn his fellow Christians that such could bring about problems and distractions that might hinder them in their service to Jehovah.

    “The Time Left Is Reduced”

    12 In the first century C.E., Christians were not free to lead their lives like worldly people. Their situation would affect even their married life. Paul wrote: “Moreover, this I say, brothers, the time left is reduced. Henceforth let those who have wives be as though they had none, . . . and those making use of the world as those not using it to the full; for the scene of this world is changing. Indeed, I want you to be free from anxiety. . . . But this I am saying for your personal advantage, not that I may cast a noose upon you, but to move you to that which is becoming and that which means constant attendance upon the Lord without distraction.”—1 Corinthians 7:29-35.

    13 Bible scholar Frédéric Godet wrote: “Whereas unbelievers regard the world as sure to last indefinitely, the Christian has always before his eyes the great expected fact, the Parousia [Presence].” Christ had given his disciples the sign of his “presence,” and had warned them: “Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.” (Matthew 24:3, 42) The time left was “reduced” in that those first-century Christians had to live constantly in expectation of Christ’s coming. Furthermore, they did not know how much time remained for them individually before “time and unforeseen occurrence” brought their life to a close, ending all possibility for them to ‘make their calling sure.’—Ecclesiastes 9:11; 2 Peter 1:10.

    14 For Christians in Judea and Jerusalem, the need to “keep on the watch” was particularly imperative. When Jesus gave warning of the second destruction of Jerusalem, he stated: “Woe to the pregnant women and those suckling a baby in those days!” (Matthew 24:19) True, Jesus did not tell first-century Christians that they should refrain from having children. He simply made a prophetic statement of fact, indicating that when the signal of Jerusalem’s imminent destruction appeared, quick flight would be more difficult for pregnant women or those with young children. (Luke 19:41-44; 21:20-23) Nevertheless, as unrest grew among the Jews in Judea during the years preceding 66 C.E., doubtless Jesus’ warning came to the minds of Christians and influenced their attitude toward bringing children into the world in those troubled times.

    Childbearing Today

    15 How should Christians view marriage and childbearing today, in this “time of the end”? (Daniel 12:4) It is truer than ever that “the scene of this world is changing,” or, as another translation puts it, “the present scheme of things is rapidly passing away.”—1 Corinthians 7:31, Phillips.

    16 Now, as never before, “the time left is reduced.” Yes, only a limited time remains for Jehovah’s people to finish the work he has given them to do, namely: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14) That work must be accomplished before the end comes. It is, therefore, appropriate for Christians to ask themselves how getting married or, if married, having children will affect their share in that vital work.
    An Ancient Example

    17 Jesus likened the time of “the presence of the Son of man” to “the days of Noah.” (Matthew 24:37) Noah and his three sons had a specific work to accomplish before the Flood. It involved building a gigantic ark and preaching. (Genesis 6:13-16; 2 Peter 2:5) When Jehovah gave instructions about the building of the ark, Noah’s sons were apparently already married. (Genesis 6:18) We do not know exactly how long it took to build the ark, but it seems likely that it took several decades. Interestingly, during all this pre-Flood period, Noah’s sons and their wives had no children. The apostle Peter specifically states that ‘eight souls were carried safely through the water,’ that is, four married couples but no children. (1 Peter 3:20) The sons’ remaining childless was possibly for two reasons. First, in view of the approaching destruction by a deluge of waters, they had a divinely appointed job to do that required their undivided attention. Second, they doubtless felt disinclined to bring children into a world where “the badness of man was abundant in the earth and every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time,” a world “full of violence.”—Genesis 6:5, 13.

    18 This is not to say that the course of action taken by Noah’s sons and their wives before the Deluge was meant to set the rule for married couples living today. Nevertheless, since Jesus compared Noah’s day to the period in which we are now living, their example can provide food for thought.

    “Critical Times”

    19 Like Noah and his family, we are also living in “a world of ungodly people.” (2 Peter 2:5) Like them, we are in “the last days” of a wicked system of things that is about to be destroyed. The apostle Paul prophesied that “the last days” of Satan’s system would bring “critical times hard to deal with.” Showing that raising children would be one of the things hard to deal with, he added that children would be “disobedient to parents.” He stated that people in general, not excluding children and adolescents, would be “unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection.” (2 Timothy 3:1-3) While Paul was here prophesying of conditions among worldly people, obviously such prevalent attitudes would make the rearing of children increasingly difficult for Christians, as many have experienced.

    20 All the foregoing shows that it is necessary to have a balanced view of childbearing. While it can bring many joys, it can also bring many heartaches. It has advantages and disadvantages. Some of these will be considered in the following article.

    *** w88 3/1 23-7 Responsible Childbearing in This Time of the End ***
    Responsible Childbearing in This Time of the End

    “Presiding in a fine manner over children.”—1 TIMOTHY 3:12.
    THE joy of parenthood is undeniable. The maternal instinct is natural, although stronger in some women than in others. In many Western lands, little boys are more interested in playing with mechanical toys, while little girls generally prefer dolls, which toy makers strive to make as realistic as possible. Many girls just live for the day when they will be able to cuddle, not a doll, but their own live, warm, gurgling baby.

    Joys and Responsibilities

    2 Responsible childbearing requires parents to consider a newborn baby not as a plaything but as a creature for whose life and future they are accountable to the Creator. When they bring a child into the world, parents must be prepared to take on a big responsibility and adjust accordingly. They are embarking on a 20-year feeding, clothing, health-care, and education program, with the end result unpredictable.

    3 Happily, a great many Christian parents have raised children who have become faithful, dedicated servants of Jehovah. Some have seen their children grow up and enter the full-time service as pioneers, missionaries, or Bethel family members. Of such parents it can truly be said: “The father of a righteous one will without fail be joyful; the one becoming father to a wise one will also rejoice in him. Your father and your mother will rejoice, and she that gave birth to you will be joyful.”—Proverbs 23:24, 25.

    Parental Heartaches

    4 But this is not always the case, even for elders who have children. The apostle Paul wrote: “The overseer should therefore be irreprehensible, a husband of one wife . . . a man presiding over his own household in a fine manner, having children in subjection with all seriousness; (if indeed any man does not know how to preside over his own household, how will he take care of God’s congregation?)” Paul added: “Let ministerial servants be husbands of one wife, presiding in a fine manner over children and their own households.”—1 Timothy 3:2-5, 12.

    5 Of course, Christian elders and ministerial servants cannot be held responsible if their children, once of age, refuse to continue serving Jehovah. But they are responsible for their minor children and for older children who are still living under their roof. Elders and ministerial servants have lost precious privileges of service because they became negligent or failed seriously to meet the Scriptural requirement of “presiding in a fine manner over children and their own households.” For such ones, and for many others, their children brought them more distress than joy. How often the proverb has proved true: “A stupid son means adversities to his father”!—Proverbs 19:13.

    Responsible Fatherhood

    6 All Christian husbands, whether they have congregational responsibilities or not, should also consider the effect that taking care of young children could have on their wife’s spirituality. If a wife is not spiritually strong, how will a baby, or a number of babies, affect her personal study and opportunities to share in the preaching work?

    7 Do husbands always realize that taking care of a baby or a young child often prevents their wives from getting full benefit from the Congregation Book Study, Kingdom Hall meetings, circuit assemblies, and district conventions? Such a situation can last for months, and even years, when baby follows baby. It is in the nature of things that the load, in this respect, falls mainly on the mother, rather than on the father. It has sometimes been observed that whereas some Christian men progress spiritually, even to the point of being assigned privileges in the congregation, their wives become spiritually weak. Why? Often it is because their young children prevent the wives from concentrating at meetings, doing deep Bible study, or sharing in a large measure in the witnessing work. Can fatherhood be called responsible if it permits such situations to develop?

    8 Fortunately, this is not always the case. Many Christian fathers do their utmost to share the load of looking after the children. They take their full share in seeing that their children remain quiet during congregation meetings. If their baby starts to cry, or their child becomes boisterous, they in their turn will take it outside for appropriate discipline. Why should mother always be the one to lose parts of the meetings? At home, considerate husbands help their wives with the chores and in getting the children to bed so that husband and wife can sit down to concentrate quietly on spiritual matters.

    9 When things are properly organized in a congregation, young mothers with babies can share in the auxiliary pioneer service. Some are even regular pioneers. So children are not always a handicap. Many Christian parents show a fine pioneer spirit.

    Childless But Happy

    10 Some young couples have decided to remain childless. Although the wives had maternal instincts just as strong as those in other women, they decided, in agreement with their husbands, to refrain from having children in order to devote themselves to serving Jehovah full-time. Many of them have served as pioneers or missionaries. They can now look back over the years with gratitude. To be sure, they have produced no fleshly children. But they have produced new disciples who have continued faithfully worshiping Jehovah. These ‘genuine children in the faith’ will never forget who was instrumental in bringing them “the word of truth.”—1 Timothy 1:2; Ephesians 1:13; compare 1 Corinthians 4:14, 17; 1 John 2:1.

    11 Many married couples throughout the world who have relinquished the joys of parenthood have been able to serve Jehovah in the circuit work, the district work, or at Bethel. These likewise look back with satisfaction over their lives spent serving Jehovah and their brothers in these special privileges. They have no regrets. While they have not had the joy of bringing children into the world, they have played a vital part in furthering Kingdom interests in their various fields of activity. Of all these couples who have remained childless “on account of the kingdom,” the scripture is surely applicable that says: “God is not unrighteous so as to forget your work and the love you showed for his name, in that you have ministered to the holy ones and continue ministering.”—Matthew 19:12; Hebrews 6:10.

    A Personal Matter

    12 As we saw at the outset of this discussion, childbearing is a gift of God. (Psalm 127:3) It is a unique privilege that is not shared by Jehovah’s spirit creatures. (Matthew 22:30) There have been times when the bearing of children formed part of the work that Jehovah assigned to his servants on earth. This was the case with Adam and Eve. (Genesis 1:28) It was true of the Flood survivors. (Genesis 9:1) Jehovah willed that the sons of Israel should become numerous through childbearing.—Genesis 46:1-3; Exodus 1:7, 20; Deuteronomy 1:10.

    13 Today, childbearing is not specifically a part of the work Jehovah has committed to his people. Nevertheless, it is still a privilege that he grants to married people if they desire it. Christian couples who decide to start a family should not, therefore, be criticized; neither should couples who refrain from having children.

    14 So the matter of childbearing in this time of the end is a personal one that each couple must decide for itself. However, since “the time left is reduced,” married couples would do well to weigh carefully and prayerfully the pros and cons of childbearing in these times. (1 Corinthians 7:29) Those who do choose to have children should be fully aware not only of the joys childbearing can bring but also of the responsibilities involved and the problems that can arise for them and the children they bring into the world.

    When Unplanned

    15 Some may say: ‘That’s all very well, but what if a child comes along unexpectedly?’ This has happened to many couples who were fully aware of the fact that this is not the ideal time to bring children into the world. Some of them had been in the full-time service for years. How should they view the arrival of the unexpected newcomer?

    16 This is where responsible parenthood comes into play. True, a pregnancy might be unexpected, but the baby that comes along cannot be considered unwanted by Christian parents. Whatever changes its arrival might bring about in their lives, they should certainly not feel resentment toward it. After all, they were responsible for its conception. Now that it is here, they should accept their changed situation, knowing that, in one way or another, “time and unforeseen occurrence befall” all humans. (Ecclesiastes 9:11) Willingly or not, they have taken part in a creative act of which Jehovah God is the Author. They should accept their child as a sacred trust and lovingly assume their responsibilities as “parents in union with the Lord.”—Ephesians 6:1.

    “Do Everything in the Name of the Lord”

    17 Just before he gave counsel on family matters, the apostle Paul wrote: “Whatever it is that you do in word or in work, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, thanking God the Father through him.” (Colossians 3:17-21) Whatever state a Christian may find himself in, he should be thankful to Jehovah and take advantage of his situation to “do everything in the name of the Lord.”

    18 The Christian who has chosen to remain single will use his or her freedom, not for self-indulgence, but to work “whole-souled as to Jehovah,” if possible in some form of full-time service. (Colossians 3:23; 1 Corinthians 7:32) Similarly, a married couple who decide to refrain from having children will not selfishly ‘make use of the world to the full’ but will give Kingdom service the largest possible place in their lives.—1 Corinthians 7:29-31.

    19 As for Christians who have children, they should accept their parenthood in a responsible way. Far from looking upon their children as a hindrance to serving Jehovah, they should consider them as a special assignment. What will this entail? Well, when a dedicated Christian meets someone who shows an interest in the truth, he starts a regular home Bible study with that one. Having started the study, the Witness is very diligent, returning week after week in order to help the interested one to make spiritual progress. Nothing less is needed in the case of a Christian’s children. A regular, well-thought-out Bible study, starting as soon as possible and held on a regular basis, is needed to help the youngster to grow spiritually and to learn to love his Creator. (2 Timothy 3:14, 15) Additionally, parents will be careful to set a good example of Christian conduct in the home, just as they do in the Kingdom Hall. And where possible they will take the responsibility of training their children in the field service. In this way, in addition to preaching to other adults, parents will seek, with Jehovah’s help, to “make disciples” of their own children.—Matthew 28:19.

    Children During the “Great Tribulation”

    20 Ahead of us is the “great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again.” (Matthew 24:21) It will be a difficult time for adults and children alike. In his prophecy on the conclusion of the present system of things, Jesus foretold that Christian truth would divide families. He stated: “Furthermore, brother will deliver brother over to death, and a father a child, and children will rise up against parents and have them put to death.” (Mark 13:12) Obviously, rearing children in the time of the end would not always be a pure joy. It could bring heartbreak, disappointment, and even danger, as Jesus’ words quoted above show.

    21 But while being realistic about the difficulties ahead, those who have young children should not be unduly concerned about the future. If they remain faithful themselves and do their best to bring up their children “in the discipline and mental-regulating of Jehovah,” they can be confident that their obedient children will be favorably considered. (Ephesians 6:4; compare 1 Corinthians 7:14.) As part of the “great crowd,” they and their young children can hope to survive “the great tribulation.” If such children grow up to be faithful servants of Jehovah, they will be eternally thankful to him that they had responsible parents.—Revelation 7:9, 14; Proverbs 4:1, 3, 10.

  • Will Power
    Will Power

    UN BE LIEV ABLE

  • new boy
    new boy

    AXLSPEED,

    WE ALL KNOW WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS,

    BUT WHEN DID THAT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE, ON WHAT THE SOCIETY BELIEVES?

    I REALLY HOPE YOUR NOT COUNTING YOUR SERVICE TIME HERE.

  • Axelspeed
    Axelspeed

    This was posted in response to someone who asked for this reference.

    And what exactly was it that I said that caused you to "presume" whose side I am on?

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