More here from the lovely Leolaia:
The sin of Sodom and Gomorrah- What does the bible REALLY teach?
by irondork 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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88JM
And yet Manasseh and King David etc. can be forgiven for all the stuff they did?
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fakesmile
the way i see it. lot offerd his daughters to be raped and he was the good guy. afterwards his daughters got him wasted and made nasty with him. none of this was condemned. hmmmm. sounds like the people who put this book together were full of shit. why would you concern yourself with the standards of the bible?
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jam
How is it possible for an angel to be raped?
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Jeffro
There are certainly arguments for the case that 'the Bible' is not as against homosexuality as fundamentalists like to assert. (Aside from the fact that 'the Bible' is a bunch of independent books arbitrarily chosen centuries ago, most of which say nothing at all about homosexuality.)
But the main problem with the Bible's 'condemnation' of homosexuality is it relies on a quite awkward appeal to authority. When parts of the Bible happen to mention homosexuality, the same books go on to condone the downright dispicable (e.g. rape, slavery, genocide, incest) but condemn the bizarre (e.g. eating shellfish, interweaving different materials, picking up sticks on a Saturday).
It's hardly a rational standard to go by.
A better standard of morality can be found at Matthew 7:12 (Jeffro's Colloquial Version):
Just don't be a prick.
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RedhorseWoman
The first time I had read the research concerning the real intent of the men in Sodom and Gomorrah, it was quite an eye-opener, but then the pieces starting falling in place. All of the supposed condemnations of homosexuality, if looked at in the context of the time periods in which they were written are shown to mean something entirely different. Those who want to believe that God condemns homosexuality, however, will refuse to even consider a more logical and correct explanation.
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irondork
@ Transhuman68: Thanks for the link to Leolaia's thread. I don't have near enough caffeine in me yet to tackle one of her threads but I am looking forward to it.
@ Apognophos: I was shocked too. The gay issue is what snapped me to attention and got me to start digging, questioning. Turns out the gay issue was only the tip of the iceberg. Despite the WT claims of spreading a spiritual banquet table in front of us, they were instead, dragging us down to the spiritual city dump... and I never smelled it coming.
@ Jam: How is it possible for an angel to be raped? Turns out, they can't be. Jude 7 says they "went after" the angels flesh. It mentions nothing of success.
@ Jeffro: "Don't be a prick." LOL
@ RedhorseWoman: I agree. It's easy to make the bible say what you want it to say. If you need God to be a cruel, hateful ogre, you can use the bible to support your theory. If you believe him to be a loving, caring father, that's in there too. It really emphasises the point made at Hebrews 4:12 - "For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints and [their] marrow, and [is] able to discern thoughts and intentions of [the] heart." Whatever the intentions of the heart and mind are, the bible was written in such a way that will lay bare every aspect of that person's inner-most characteristics. (1 Chronicles 28:9)
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cantleave
Jeffro - Spot on.
Interesting thread....
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PSacramento
The sin(S) of Sodom and Gomorrah were not just ONE ( homosexulaity).
Whilie it is cleaer that, for a Jew, homosexuality is a sin ( and preseumably for anyone that is part of Israel even if not a Jew by birth), it is not as clear as to who other nations are judged by it, BUT assuming it is the same regard then, yes, homosexuality is a sin.
THat said, the issue seems far more than just homosexuality as the passages in Genesis and the verse in Ezekiel show.
It seems to me that Sodom and Gomorrah were gulity of multiple sins against God and because they were to such an extreme and against His people, God acted.
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Searril
irondork, as a Christian I want to thank you for the information you've posted. I will be spending some time reading and thinking on it.