I was reading in Revelation 7 yesterday, where the 12 tribes of the sons of Israel are named and where we learn that 12,000 from each tribe are sealed. How do the JWs explain that the 144,000 are identified as Israel - and identified so specifically that the 12 tribes are named? Be gentle with me when answering. This is my very first post.
The 144,000
by dabster 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Honeybucket
They turned a figurative number into a literal number. I believe these 12 tribes or 144000 is refering to those martyred. I believe that they make up part of the big crowd but are special to god because they died in his name. This question ties into so many other doctrine beliefs. This is my point of view after talking to a pastor and asking the same question. Im sure someone else has another answer that probably makes more sense.
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jwfacts
It's figurative. So is their being virgins. The name on their foreheads if figurative. So is their being without blemish. But the number 144,000, now that is literal.
Don't expect Watchtower doctrine to actually make any sense.
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Yan Bibiyan
Welcome dabster!
When I asked a similar question, my study conductor (read designated indoctrinator ) told me that 144,000 is literal because, well, it is a number and can't be freely interpreted as anything else.
I kid you not!
As jwfacts said, don't put much stock in their claims.
-Yan
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FingersCrossed
How do they decide which should be literal and which should be figurative?
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Honeybucket
Whatever fits their "agenda" is literal and the whole bible is figurative.
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OnTheWayOut
Yours is not an easy question. Even the JW's changed their last "Revelation Book" when it suited them.
Start here: http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/144000.php
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a watcher
Is Revelation 7:4-8 a reference to literal, fleshly Israel? No, because it diverges from the usual tribal listing. (Numbers1:17, 47) The listing here is not for the purpose of identifying fleshly Jews by their tribes but to show a similar organizational structure for spiritual Israel. This is balanced. There are to be exactly 144,000 members of this new nation--12,000 from each of 12 tribes. No tribe in this Israel of God is exclusively royal or priestly. The whole nation is to rule as kings, and the whole nation is to serve as priests.--Galatians 6:16; Revelation 20:4, 6.
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prologos
honeybucket. how about this: the great crowd are the 12 tribes in disarray after the Great tribulation. the 144 000 were part of the great crowd before they were sealed to be scpecial. But the sealing started at pentecost. was there a great crowd then too? why not consider the great crowd to be all Christians? read Re,7and 14, the answers are there. 12 tribes? joseph and Levi in, Dan and Ephraim out. answer at beabeorean.com. peace.
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Honeybucket
144000 are those that walk out of the great trib?