Quick JW Doctrine Question:

breakfast of champions

Sorry. . .

According to JW doctrine, when was Jesus sacrifice accepted by god? At his resurrection (3 days after his death)? 40 days later? What references are there?

cofty

I think the official position is on his return to heaven 40 days after his resurrection.

paraphrasing - "appeared before the person of god for us"

breakfast of champions

COFTY - lol

Yeah, that's what I thought too. . But is there anything scriptural, or is this something the WT confabulated?

This seems like one of those questions answered with "Evidently. . ."

I think its based on that vague paraphrase which might be in Hebrews. He appeared before the person of god. Their screwed up ransom doctrine pictures him presenting the value of is perfect life to god or some such BS.

I no longer have a NWT or concordance - I would struggle to find a bible tbh.

breakfast of champions

Hmm. . . . Don't have access to a WTLIB right now. . .

Supposing the 40 day thing is right, that means. . .

JESUS: Good to be back. It's great to know I've atoned for mankind's sins and everyone can be resurrected and pet a lion. Mission accomplished.

GOD: Well. . .

JESUS: Well what?

GOD: Actually, we have to let the Earth rotate forty times before I can possibly accept your sacrifice. In the mean time. . . I think they're running an "I Love Lucy" marathon on TVLand. . .

Thanks COFTY.

Anyone else want to take a crack at this?

Bobcat

BoC:

Just a thought from the NIV Application Commentary:

First, the author (George H. Guthrie) quotes Leviticus 16:15 - 19 which details the Atonement day sacrifice and the cleansing of the Holy Place and the Tent of Meeting.

Then in his commentary he says:

In other words, the need for purification of the tabernacle had to do with its association with a sinful people. This holy space was made fit for continued interaction between God and his people by sacrifices that addressed the problem of sin. Correspondingly, the heavenly tabernacle, the author's conception of the place of God's presence (Heb 9:24), was made accessible to the new covenant people of God by Christ's sacrificial death. The heavenly things are purified in conjunction with the purification of God's people. . . Christ entered heaven to bring his sacrifice before God on our behalf. That this appearance before God was "for us" marks his act as distinct from the earthly high priest, who also had to offer a sacrifice for himself (Heb 5:1-3; 7:27-28). The author emphasizes this act as Christ's paving the way for God's people to enter his presence (10:19-22). 17

Footnote 17 says:

Attridge makes the important observation that the Day of Atonement analogy breaks down at this point. Our author [of Hebrews] says nothing of Christ sprinkling the blood in the heavenly realm since he does not wish to speak of the heavenly things as seperate from his death on the cross, they are one and the same. (See Attridge, Epistle to the Hebrews, 263)

There is a lot of difference of opinion among commentaries on this passage. I haven't seen any that pressed the idea quite as far as the Society. (I.e. the idea of Christ's sacrifice only becoming official when he presented it in heaven) Hebrews does speak of Christ as 'entering heaven' to act as priest in our behalf, and the passage in Hebrews does make some comparisons with the OT way of doing things on the Day of Atonement. At the same time, this is the only passage I can think of that takes the idea of Jesus' sacrifice beyond saying that he died. The presentation in Hebrews may have been solely for the sake of Jewish Christians. For gentiles, unfamiliar with Mosaic Law procedures, this level of detail may have been beyond what they needed.

I included the footnote to show that it is recognized that the analogy with OT procedure can only be pressed so far.

Hope this is helpful some.

Take Care

The Searcher

Just a personal thought;

Isaiah 66:8 asks the question, "Will a nation be born in one day?". The answer would be, at Pentecost when the 'Israel of God' was formed and clearly identified by the outpouring of Holy Spirit, the result of which caused several thousands (including some involved in Christ's death) to become believers in the Messiah. (Acts ch. 2)

On that basis, I would think of a parallel with Sinai, namely, as soon as the nation was formed, a High Priest was installed to intercede for that nation. On his ascension to heaven (and not before) Jesus would have become a High Priest in the manner of Melchizedek.

Just a thought.

BroMac

top of my head: on the death of Jesus the curtain that seperated the Holy from the Most Holy was torn in two. I think at this point His sacrifice was accepted, removing the need of following The Law to be acceptable to God.

hmm just a quick search:

*** it-2 p. 1081 Temple ***

The features of “the true tent,” God’s great spiritual temple, already existed in the first century C.E. This is indicated by the fact that, with reference to the tabernacle constructed by Moses, Paul wrote that it was “an illustration for the appointed time that is now here,” that is, for something that existed when Paul was writing. (Heb 9:9) That temple certainly existed when Jesus presented the value of his sacrifice in its Most Holy, in heaven itself. It must actually have come into existence in 29 C.E., when Jesus was anointed with holy spirit to serve as Jehovah’s great High Priest.—Heb 4:14; 9:11, 12.

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