by Lozhasleft 15 Replies latest jw friends
So many of us now realise that the WTBS is a false religion. But for those who haven't left or been DAd or DFd, how can you stay? Ok, if you've lost your belief in god and are staying for family/friends etc, but, if you DO want to preserve a relationship with your god, how can you stay knowing how he feels about false religion? Isn't it time you stopped touching the 'unclean thing'? If you love god isn't it the most important factor?
Loz x
Of course, I’ve departed from the organization.
But there are a few things to consider:
(1) Our relationship with God is the most important thing, not religion.
(2) Babylon the Great may not be the “world empire of false religion”, that is purely Watchtower indoctrination. According to Revelation, Babylon the Great is a city. I believe the city to be first century Jerusalem.
(3) It is a personal matter between that person and God. If their conscience hasn’t moved them to depart, maybe it isn’t their time? Maybe they are being led to stay in for the time being for the greater good?
(4) Why did Paul go to the temple in Acts 21? Why did he participate in Jewish ceremonies and observe Jewish customs at time, when the Old Covenant had passed away and the priesthood and leadership was totally corrupt? Did not Jesus say regarding the Temple and the worship associated with it, “Your house is abandoned to you?”
(5) People progress at different rates, they have difference circumstances. Matthew left his tax collecting immediately and followed Jesus. Nicodemus was a secret disciple. Jesus said, "Stop judging." Therefore, we need to focus not on what other people are doing or not doing, but focus on what we are and are not doing.
...what Londo said. I'm telling you, Londo...your posts are so good!
...except for 1 little thing. I believe that the comments of Jesus to stop judging and to not judge others is usually misinterpreted. Usually Matthew 7 is brought up when someone says, "Stop judging me lest you be judged". Looking at the context it appears that Jesus is speaking of hypocritical judging. I should judge someone for drunkeness while I myself am getting drunk. However, judging appears in the same passage when Jesus says not to cast pearls before pigs. We would've had to have judged someone as unworthy for the "pearls" before refusing to give them the message.
Just a quick thought. It's ok to judge others. It's discernment. If someone looks at something I am doing in my life that is not healthy, it's good for them to come up to me and tell me that they are worried because of such and such.
The only reason I bring it up is because I've heard the "stop judging" thing misapplied alot lately.
Thank you.
Babylon the Great may not be the “world empire of false religion”, that is purely Watchtower indoctrination. According to Revelation, Babylon the Great is a city. I believe the city to be first century Jerusalem.
Indeed. The Watchtower ideologically fits best with the Beast out of the Earth, not the Harlot. This is because they are a false prophet which is what the Beast out of the Earth is described as. "Two horns like a lamb, but preaches like a dragon."
-Sab
Valid considerations both of you, thank you. I don't want to judge, last thing on my mind. I just wish someone had highlighted this for me, it's such a dangerous situation to be in, spiritually, don't you think?
Loz x
I believe you are right, it can be spiritually damaging, especially for those who do not realize the danger. I wish I’d had all the information before getting baptized, but I was young and naïve, and those were the days before the internet.
I did have opportunities to listen, but I closed my ears and ran away from them. I remember somebody telling me that JWs once believed God lived on Alcyone. I basically said that was nonsense and “You are thinking of the Mormons”. I’d a friend look up a Ray Franz video on my computer, which I stumbled upon when checking my internet history. Unfortunately, he also looked up gay porn, and since I’m straight, and back then somewhat homophobic, I overreacted and basically told him if he didn’t approach the elders I would. My ears were closed.
I do believe Jesus was indicating not to fingerpoint, our primary focus should keeping on ourselves in line.
For instance, I rarely drink and then only in small quantities. The last time I did was at a church I visited that served real wine for communion. So I don’t have a problem in the area of drunkenness. However, there are other areas of my life where I am not so perfect. A person who has a problem with alcohol may exceed me in areas that I struggle with.
Therefore, if I would severely pronounce judgement, then it would likely have a bearing on how I am judged in regard my own weaknesses. On the other hand, if I endeavor to be understanding and merciful, then I would be accorded the same understanding and mercy. If I concentrate on the good in others, then the good will be focused on in me.
Otherwise, it’s a slippery slope into becoming like the Westboro folks. Of course, there I just made a judgment of sorts. Perhaps it is to cease judging in the Absolute sense, rather than the Relative sense. For instance, judging in the Absolute sense, we might say things like, “You’ve no relationship with God. You’ve a bad heart.” How would we know? It is beyond our ability to determine.
Jesus also said, “Stop being anxious”, but we all are relatively anxious from time to time. I t is something to continually strive for...to reduce our anxiety and to not let it absolutely consume us. Sometimes we NEED to be anxious and attend to certain matters. Similarly, perhaps we can learn to reduce our judgemental natures, but use good discernment to avoid situations that can be damaging.
Indeed. The Watchtower ideologically fits best with the Beast out of the Earth, not the Harlot. This is because they are a false prophet which is what the Beast out of the Earth is described as. "Two horns like a lamb, but preaches like a dragon."
I doubt very seriously that the insignificant Watchtower Society has anything to do with any major character fullfilments of prophecy in the book of Revelation.
True that!
I really think that is an individuals personal business.
No answer will satisfy another person, and no one should have to justify to another why they stay, when they obviously have their reasons or they wouldn't stay. It is between them and their god if they believe in one.
