Guns, Politics, and Liberty

by Infowarrior 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  dazed but not confused

  My last question is. What kind of politics did you, your family, and friends have as Witnesses? What are your polictical ideas now ?

  When I was in, if I shared an even a slight political opinion I was shut down by my mom and friends, "We are to remain politically neutral." I was surounded my Borg Zombies.

  Now, Im a registered Republican who owns and loves guns and carries a concealed legally - regularly. Im new to the political game. I don't know much but I like to learn. I believe in less government, freedom of choice when it comes to abortion, gay rights and legalization of MaryJane. I voted for the first time ever in this last election and plan on voting from here on out.
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  gone for good

  Infowarrior-

  I made a fresh pot of coffee just so I could enjoy your post - thank you for sharing it, with the thoughtful people on this forum!

  I too am a Canuck and was a JW for many years (early70's till mid 90's). I wasn't raised as a witness, so I didn't when young, and still don't suffer from the watchtowers narrow, myopic and intentional, misportrayal of the beautiful peoples of the world as 'Satanic'.

  The term 'worldly' in the early days of global navigation, described those who were lucky (and hardy) enough to travel widely. What the worldy journalists and intellectuals saw and recorded by writing and illustrations, is the amazing study we now call history - it was astonishing news back then!

  To be worldly was to have learned, to have experienced, to have seen with ones own faculties, the amazing diversity of races, beliefs, cultures and environments in which mankind was able to survive and thrive. To be worldy is to be curious, adventuresome, and in constant wonderment at the realityof the universe as it still reveals to us.

  You sound like a worldly guy - researching and wondering. Good for you my friend - keep up the good work!
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  gone for good

  Infowarrior -

  Guns, Politcs and Liberties - you bite off some huge issues my friend!
  Bless you for being concerned with liberties.

  Mankind thrives with broad freedoms to love, learn, prosper, travel, and associate freely. These pursuits are the primary goals of humans, and no doubt the reason you have researched so much in relation to them.

  Our freedoms are bound tightly along their sides by laws and politics. The fringes at the ends of our freedoms are constructs of religious thought and societal constraints. In some cultures, it's the religious and societal influence that exerts the stronger force, and the political/legal framework for individuals freedom is not so properly in effect.
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  kurtbethel

  That is a generalization to think that guns are something that "the right" like to have and "the left" dislike.

  Attitudes about guns are shaped by how you were brought up to associate with guns, as a tool, a protective item, a scary violent item or however else you perceived them to be. The politics come in later. Even most people who think you shouldn't have guns have no problem with themselves having guns, either in their possesion, or by proxy in the hands of bodyguards or police. Like many other issues, it is the fringes who capture most of the discussion and are heard the most. With guns, the fringes are those who support a total gun ban, and those who think everyone should have a gun. Those two groups drive the dialog, which is actually more about lecturing than discussion.

  I am very antiwar and pacifist. I think for the most part I have no use for a gun. But I don't think I have the right to tell some person I don't know, and have no idea about the threats and dangers in their life, that I can deny them the right to protect themself in whatever way they determine to be best for their situation.

  One other thing, when people get all alarmed that the government will ban guns, I think that is hilarious. I am speaking about the US government here. These clods are so inept, that if they ban guns then it is a sure bet that there will be more of them in people's hands. Look how they botch things up so badly, like getting water and supplies to disaster victims that would welcome them at the door, can a rational person think they would accomplish doing anything for people who do not want their intervention? Too funny to ponder that one.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFMUeUErYVg
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  Chaserious

  I have come to realize that we are facing an international agenda of evil, formentend by the bankers and their technocrat politicans

  Oh please.. I had to stop reading here. Build a bunker if you are so worried.
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  sammielee24

  Kurt - in addressing your belief that you have no right to tell someone else they shouldn't have a gun because you don't know their situation - there are a whole pack of politicians and hosts like Jones who are rabid pro-gun, the more the better - these same people hide behind their interpretation of the 2nd ammendment by claiming having 50 guns as a 'right' then are very quick to foist their belief about abortion on the rest of the population. They believe there should be laws telling you what you can do with your body or your life - but don't want any laws when it comes to them carrying a weapon. They see your stance on abortion as no right to take a life but their own use of a gun as a necessary tool to take a life.

  Alex goes off on abortion all the time - he has if I am correct in my thinking of shows I have heard, been quick to say that thousands more babies are killed each day because of abortion than can ever be killed by guns. Paul Ryan is a pro-gun advocate - he has the right he believes to carry and use a gun - but at the same time he just applied his name to the personhood bill - the one that would make the cells in your body - his by law.

  This whole issue of guns, politics and liberty is rather laughable. How can you ever (not you but in general) proclaim that liberty = guns when you refuse to act on the notion that liberty = abortion? If the 2nd ammendment was for a militia but politicians and gun advocates interpet it as personal - they get to use that to push guns as liberty while refusing to allow women and men the same liberty in issues outside of gun ownership and use.

  As I said - I believe there is more liberty and probably far less need for a gun if you were to tackle the issues of poverty, degradation, income disparity - the issues of massive gaps between haves and have nots, employment, education and especially banking and corporate interests - add on pharmaceutical profits on whole societies - tackle those and I could listen. Alex Jones is no different than Piers Morgan - they both sell themselves to an ideal - they sensationalize their ideals and it brings in ratings. I've listened to Jones on and off over the years and I can see where he can twist the minds and thoughts of some people already on the edge of their own reality - I can see where Piers can also feed into a preconcieved mindset with his ideals that allow people to become apathetic to other opinions and possibilities - but I don't believe liberty always has to come from the point of a gun when we are speaking in broad terms of society. sammieswife
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  james_woods

  One simple question: Is the original poster trying to say that the banking community (which he thinks control the government) is anti-gun?
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  kurtbethel

  Kurt - in addressing your belief that you have no right to tell someone else they shouldn't have a gun because you don't know their situation - there are a whole pack of politicians and hosts like Jones who are rabid pro-gun, the more the better - these same people hide behind their interpretation of the 2nd ammendment by claiming having 50 guns as a 'right' then are very quick to foist their belief about abortion on the rest of the population. They believe there should be laws telling you what you can do with your body or your life - but don't want any laws when it comes to them carrying a weapon. They see your stance on abortion as no right to take a life but their own use of a gun as a necessary tool to take a life.

  Exactly. Those are the extremes that drive the discussion. With abortion, the extremes are the never have an abortion, no way no how, and the abortion on demand, up until it is sliding down the birth canal and even then bust its brains on the way out, and by the way you are expected to pay for it whether you like it or not. There is a middle ground that balances the circumstances of a womans health and well being, fetal development and all the other factors. Middle ground people are boring and don't make for good sound bites. Of course, all that is good fodder for another thread.

  Just as I have no right to tell someone how they can protect themselves from threats in their environment, I have no right to tell a woman she must produce a baby she does not want to have. See? I'm consistent with this pro choice thing.