Planning exit, alternative venues to preach? (page 3)

Goodstein

All these comments about needing to sort out what I believe first before preaching are well taken indeed. Thank you. Luckily, I have an atheist friend who is nontheless fascinated by religion and will listen to me talk about theological disputes for hours, so I have some outlet without much risk of damaging anyone's spirituality. (After months of thinking that Jesus was made up by Paul, I got him to admit that Jesus probably existed and that people contemporary to Jesus thought he did miracles, per J. Meier's "A Marginal Jew," which I don't completely agree with but is nontheless excellent. I really liked how he was able to conceptualize "the historical Jesus" without encroaching on notions of faith and "the real Jesus", but I digress.)

Anyway, yes, I've only been able to read the bible for what it is for a relatively short period of time, and although I had years ago privately accepted some of the higher critical arguments (documentary hypothesis, Q, etc) and learned about them (as I said, I have been reading non-WT Bible-related books for years), I suppose I need to go back and re-read some of them without the constraint of feeling like I needed to synthesize them with the basic thrust of WT teaching. Everything made so much more sense when I wasn't viewing the Bible as a monolithic rulebook from God and instead as a collection of inspired books. I had been wasting effort trying to straighen out every little inconsistency or detail when I should have been asking "what is this writer's message about God?"

I love Near-Eastern history and have been on a book spree ever since digging into 607/587. I will continue my reading in that area.

Unfortunately, I can't openly examine other religions or denominations now, due to the constraints of my position and desire to help my family, but I will be reading up on them. Thanks for your input in that regard. Might look into Toastmasters or something similarly secular in nature.

As to other venues for preaching, I've thought about writing a book on my Babylonian chronology research, but then I discovered that book had already been written much better than I could. :) I've been writing down my feelings about this whole situation carefully, but have no intention at this point of writing "yet another Ex-JW story."

I will look into Hassan's other book. As to the Jonestown comparision, while I agree that no organization representing Jesus should have a body count, it's a proportional thing too. Most of the members of the People's Temple died, most JWs don't. Again, not justifying the doctrine, but there are a lot more Jehovah's Witnesses, so it's somewhat unfair. I'm morbidly curious what fraction of JWs would drink the hypothetical poisoned kool-aid, judging by response to the blood doctrine, no more than 70% or so... but then, a good fraction the people at Jonestown were murdered too, if I recall correctly.

Thanks again.

(Sorry for lumping all of these into one post, but there appears to be a posting limit on new users.)

return of parakeet

You say the dubs are not a destructive cult, yet in your next paragraph you talk about the possibility of your father's "turning you in."

If you don't consider a parent's betrayal of your love and trust as destructive, you need more help than finding alternate venues to speak in public.

Perhaps a support group for former cult members would be the best place for you to talk.

Even so, I wish you the best as you try to disentangle yourself from the dubs.

Goodstein

You raise a valid point - certainly the WTS alienates people's natural affections for their family - I just have a difficult time seeing how that compares with the cults described in Hassan's first book, who do all that and more. JWs are much less high-pressure, too, with making converts. Or at least, my family always was. (Maybe that's why we never seemed to make any in spite of all the pioneering, thank God.)

If you are saying that the defintion of a destructive cult should be broadened to include JWs (as perhaps it has been in Hassan's new book, which I will read when I get the chance), that's fine, I just don't think they meet all of his definition in the first book. The political mainstream too seems to consider JWs a legitimate religion, even granting that lobbying may have influenced this a lot. If on the other hand, you're sure it's not only a destructive cult but also every bit as destructive as the Moonies or Scientology, you're absolutely entitled to that opinion, but I don't agree with it. I think there are worse cults by far.

Our perspective may be different, especially if we've had bad experiences with them - and in the interests of full disclosure, I've had mainly positive experiences. I'm a theological dissenter troubled by increasing totalitarianism and inconsistencies between WTS teaching, the Bible, history and science, not someone who was suddenly shunned by all their family over breaking some man-made rule or refusing to break off contact with a friend who was. I can imagine how I'd be a lot more negative about the society if my position were different.

Anyway, goodnight; I need to get some rest.

return of parakeet

There are cults, and then there are cults. Not all cults are equal in the harm they do. The dubs are not as extreme as Moonies, Jim Jones, and those mother-ship suicides years ago. The only difference is in degree of harm, not in their essential characteristics.

Check out "The Best Of" section of this site for great dicussions about the WTS and how it harms and kills (yes, kills) its adherents.

Good night.

Open mind

cofty: "Lots of us here were good and very experienced at pubic speaking. Its a trap. It strokes your ego and keeps you from being objective about things that you are busy teaching others."

Very pithily said.

om

LoisLane looking for Superman

Welcome Goodstein

Just Lois

Fernando

A hearty warm welcome Goodstein!

Wow, what a lovely, rational and balanced first post.

I admire your people and reasoning skills, as well as your firm conviction.

Best wishes for your stay on JWN, and on life's journey.

Fernando

South East Queensland, Australia

(Why do followers of the Watchtower religion call themselves “publishers of the Good News” whilst unfamiliar with the “Good News” according to Paul, Moses, Isaiah and Psalms?)

Fernando

Goodstein, possibly this perceptive article could be of some interest or use as you explore alternate big-picture frameworks to that of the Watchtower:

Valjean and Javert: The Two Christianities of Les Miserables

jgnat

I might suggest that another characteristic of the WTS that puts them in the "high control group" category is the requirement to "plan an exit".

Goodstein

I really enjoyed that article about Les Mis. Thanks.

I am yet to explore the various interpretations of the significance of Christ's sacrifice. This business of God paying the ransom of a human saccrifice to himself on abstract principle always seemed a bit odd to me, but I've explored soteriology barely at all. Will read up.

Planning exit, alternative venues to preach?

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