by Pyramid Scheme 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
@ cobaltcupcake... I was that TV show.. well the last half hour .. scary..
@wha happened.. when I was DF'd .. they said you can't have any association with the congergation... and if you are found out to have worldy association you won't be reinstated.. the Isolation was unbearable.. one of the guy's I worked with came by and took me to a movie, I could tell he felt sick about my situation.. (FULL METAL JACKET)..
I never once saw a successful appeal....Even though as an elder, I helped a friend of mine prepare one once! I thought we had an airtight case to get the DF overturned......I was wrong.
I've heard of one case being overturned. The DFd was un-DFd, readmitted but yet remained on probabtion, or whatever they call it when 'privileges' are revoked. I can't remember the details. At the time I was still in, and thought that it was odd, yet fair, if Jehovah's spirit really overcame an injustice. What a dope I was...
So, if Jehovah make the decision ahead of time and moves a DF'd one to return like the prodigal son, why are they required to wait a year before they are reinstated?
Was it Jehovah's view that I was removed from all responsibilities in the Congo, because I said that the GB are not infallible, and doctrines change, all right before the annual meeting in October?! How exactly is the Holy Spirit causing the Elders to have Jehovahs view, when the Elders have to ask the 3 special questions before they announce the appointment of an MS or Elder? Didn't Jehovah already know that?! Wasn't that decision already made in heaven or else the letter wouldn't have been checked with a yes?! Didn't the decision to recommend a brother come through the guidance of the Holy Spirit? Wasn't it Jehovah's view that he be recommended? So if that Brother turns out to be a molester......
This kind of self-referential "reasoning" also creates a nearly impossible situation for anyone trying to be reinstated.
When the elders ask, " Do you think Jehovah has forgiven you?" how is a person supposed to answer?
This is really tricky. You'd think the answer should be "Yes!" but that answer can cause problems. For instance, as the paragraph in question shows, the elders like to believe that any "decision" they reach in a Judicial Hearing while "under prayer" is directed by Holy Spirit and simply reflects what Jehovah has already decided in Heaven.
So if they don't (for whatever reason) feel that you're repentant, then that must mean that Jehovah has NOT forgiven you, with the resulting implication that you are wrong about believing he has.
On the other hand, if you say "No" then that tends to indicate in the minds of the elders that you probably haven't done enough of whatever it is that you should have done to be completely repentant and recieve Jehovah's forgiveness.
If you say something like, "I'm not sure ... I think so, but I don't really know," then you're handing over complete authority for everything to three guys that think Holy Spirit directs them.
The problem with this whole arrangment is that is is predicated on a bunch of false beliefs. They claim it's all about repentance, yet in reality the elders have no way to determine real repentance or a lack of it. In fact, the shunning process effectively eliminates any real opportunity for them to legitimately get to know an individual and get some real feel for their mental, emotional and spiritual state. They claim their "monitoring your 'spiritual progress'" by un-officially observing your meeting attendance. But they're not even too good at that.
I once heard an elder say he'd never seen a particular DF'd individual at meetings even though that person had been going for many months and had sat in front of, behind or next to that elder on several occasions. So this poor person's life was on hold because one particular elder isn't very observant.
The elders don't really know what they're doing. The WTBTS's directions are convoluted, conflicting, contradictory, sometimes overly specific, othertimes frustratingly vague and open to interpretation. Also, the elders are often more afraid of appearing weak in front of their fellow elders than in really doing the right thing.
I am sooo glad I am flipping out of there!!!!
I was truly offended by this statement. As someone who at one time served as an elder, I can tell for a certainty that I made mistakes. I also have served on appeal committees where the mistakes or favoritism of other elders was clearly manifest. (I was involved on one appeal committee that was actually overturned-very complicated case) I think many thinking people would have respected a more honest and noble comment. For example they could have stated that “The elders are not perfect and when judging others they have a clear disadvantage over Jehovah as they CANNOT read the hearts of their fellow man. They endeavor to reflect Jehovah’s perfect wisdom by referring to scripture and praying for his Holy Spirit on these weighty matters. Despite their best efforts; these brothers are not infallible and at times, will make an error in judgment. What is attitude if this is the way we feel. Will we openly and publicly criticize the elders or will we show honor and respect for Jehovah’s theocratic arrangement, despite their imperfections?” Something along these lines would have been much more palatable.
The G.B. 2.0 is totally lacking in humility. As disturbing as this was; I was not surprised as the undertone of the FDS message over the past few years is getting even more pious and self serving.
So all this does is screw with peoples minds and make a correct decision impossible. The confusion sets in, and the poor Elders have no choice but to defer to the Shepherd book, which is the way the system has evolved. If there are questions that the book can't give an answer to, then the CO is called in. He gives his opinion which is also lacking full insight. Since the hierarchy rules all, and makes everyone warm and fuzzy all over, the decision is accepted. Responsibility has been passed on to whom the Elders consider their spiritual superior. Problem solved, everyone can sleep soundly except the ones who's lives are in shambles....
they could have stated that “The elders are not perfect and when judging others they have a clear disadvantage over Jehovah as they CANNOT read the hearts of their fellow man. They endeavor to reflect Jehovah’s perfect wisdom by referring to scripture and praying for his Holy Spirit on these weighty matters. Despite their best efforts; these brothers are not infallible and at times, will make an error in judgment.
The GB holds the rank and file JWs as contemptible. They have no respect for the average JW's ability to reason or make the simplest decision.
Let's pretend someone on the writing committee wrote exactly what you have there, as a first draft.
I can hear what the service department and/or GB member with oversight of this article would say:
"No no no, we can't write this. 'the elders at times will make an error in judgment'? No no no - if we write that, then every single person who is disfellowshipped will claim 'MY case was an error in judgment'. Every single relative of a disfellowshipped person will say 'this case was an error in judgment'. You'll have everybody and their brother singing 'error in judgment, error in judgement, error in judgment' and they won't shun them. The whole thing would collapse. No, we need to tighten up that paragraph - a LOT."
Did I say they view JWs as contemptible? That's an understatement. They view us as beneath contempt.
They view JWs as mischievous children, and "give them an inch and they'll take a mile".
The only way they feel they can keep JWs in line is to deal out the punishment as harshly as possible.
" These brothers do not have the full insight that God ( Faithful slave/GB ) does , but they aim to make their decision harmonize with the direction given in God's word ( WT publications provided by the faithful slave ) under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. " Translation : Elders don't HAVE as much of God's holy spirit or as much rank and power as the GB / faithful & discreet slave does being directly appointed by Jesus & God. So elders jus follow the GB because they ARE God, or the pope- whatever your choice is
They put themselves in the "seat of Moses." If you even hint at disagreeing with them they throw in the Korah threat. This really identifies them in "the seat of Moses." Moses always tested God's decisions, remember the staff that bloomed? Then when it came time to deal with Korah and his cronies, it wasn't in some little tent way out on the edge of the encampment, it was out in the open in front of all the people. Moses did not call down the punishment on Korah, he let God do it all. This is what happens when they get too full of their own self importance.
