Granted, if one does not believe in God, then this whole subject is pointless (so why post in this thread? :-), but I think the question raised, "Why did the Society go with a name that they knew was far from the original pronunciation?" is a valid one. Their answer, "Because TRADITION" was correctly pointed out by nibbled as foolish; weren't Witnesses supposed to be the ultimate rejecters of Christendom's traditions? The additional reason "Because it was familiar" is dubious to me, as most people never encounter the name aside from JW literature, but perhaps in the 1800s, the name was somewhat more familiar to Bible readers.
Yehowah, the divine name known by the Watchtower, but not used.
by nibbled 32 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Phizzy
Then reason I posted on this thread is that any lurking JW reading here would not have been exposed to the information I posted, and they would never never be directed to a book such as "And Man Created God".
Why not ? because once you have read the scholarly research you realise that you have been thoroughly duped, and Big J or whatevere you want to call him is no more real or important than all the other god's that man invented.
When I first heard those facts stated I was an active JW, it began my research and journey to freedom.
Freedom from superstiton and ignorance. Surely if us non-believers can help just one other person toward enlightenment, that is a good thing ?
If not, then I will leave this thread, which no doubt will eventually get on to the all important point of how the name Santa Clause should be pronounced.
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Satanus
My conclusion is that it was to establish a brand name, something w which to differentiate themselves from all those OTHER false brands. Now, that they are stuck w it, they sometimes need to print some kind of support/justification for it that fits this time and these circumstances.
S
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caliber
Granted, if one does not believe in God, then this whole subject is pointless (so why post in this thread? :-
Atheism: believing that God(s) and all of the spiritual matters do not exist.
This being the case many Bibical words simply make no sense to certain ones here example....Blasphemy... is the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for a religious deity or the irreverence towards religious or holy persons or things
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james_woods
This being the case many Bibical words simply make no sense to certain ones here example....
Blasphemy... is the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for a religious deity
or the irreverence towards religious or holy persons or things
The word blasphemy still makes perfect sense to non-believers. The idea that it is a practically unforgiveable sin does not.
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caliber
The word blasphemy still makes perfect sense to non-believers. The idea that it is a practically unforgiveable sin does not.
Might Heresy be worse then ? a heretic may establish their own form of religion
Heresy is any belief or theory that is strongly at variance with established beliefs or customs.[1] Heresy is distinct from both apostasy, which is the explicit renunciation of one's religion, principles or cause,[2] and blasphemy, which is irreverence toward religion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heresy
The word blasphemy still makes perfect sense to non-believers
. No doubt then this would aid them in consideringwhether not to post
on the topic of "God's " name... which may confound & confuse people such as the O.P.
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xchange
Caliber: Atheism: believing that God(s) and all of the spiritual matters do not exist
Just a gentle correction on your definition. Atheism: Insufficient evidence for the CLAIMS made by believers for any god(s) and all things spiritual.
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Apognophos
I'm an agnostic, so I don't have a dog in this race, but it just didn't seem germane to the topic of God's name to say, "There is no God." We get it. You're atheist. You don't have to remind us in every thread about God. It's like if, every time you talk about some restaurant you went to, I remind you that I'm vegetarian, and are you aware of the bad things about eating meat? I might be trying to help, but all I'm really accomplishing is annoying you.
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caliber
It's like if, every time you talk about some restaurant you went to, I remind you that I'm vegetarian, and are you aware of the bad things about eating meat?
Basically one is saying the topic is invalid... how can that be anything but rude ??
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nibbled
jwfacts, ÁrbolesdeArabia sorry guys, we've been going round on this on another thread. You might be interested to catch up on that and join in the convo! Would love to have your thoughts after you've read all the posts. So sorry! You might want to read up on the history of the original Latin alphabet to classic. I was in a hefty conversation with AGuest, though she uses a different name than Jehovah, also derived from JHVH.
Personally, I'm against the "hovah" and the "J", and those that don't fulfill the 'requirements' as we have through the scriptures. If you see flaws, please let me know. Still learning. But I'm past the 17th Century English J.
Besides I hang out with my German friend who won't ever pronounce it like the "J" is 'supposed' to sound anyway, so I can't get past it anymore. I had long been aware of sounding like a foolish American, so one day I went looking for the real name. Btw, he's unbiased, he's an atheist friend (co-worker, not xJW).
What scholars in Europe who used the J? It was a fancy "I". IEHOWAH and IEOUA are valid. It's when you change the "v" and suddenly you've got Babylon (see the use of hovah in the scriptures, ref. Strong's) and our that you know that while Israel was captive to Babylon they were among people who worshipped Jeh. Thus, the Hebrew people knew who Jeh Hovah was, She was known by the Persians as "the whore". She gave women their periods and was the consort (wife) to the primary god of Zorastarism, known as the "destructive spirit". So you have the Whore of Babylon wife of the Destructive Spirit.
Huh. Imagine that. Sounds familiar. Funny thing is, if you could bring one of those Hebrews back today, they'd know who "je'hovah" is when you'd ask.
Regarding Gnostism, check out who they thought he was. The Seal of Solomon was used to seal the three-head spirit. The Horned Hunter.
As the other thread posted at top of this post notes, that the pronuciation of his name was lost is just a fallacy. His name was used in countless theophoric names in the scriptures. Those names of all those people and how to pronounce them were passed down to today. The Hebrews don't use "J" for their names in place of the "Y" either. But hey, maybe some good JW in the UK can go edit all the Wikipedia pages, quick?
While arguing may not bring you closer, ignorance takes you further away. After ending up trying to explain to people who are in love with their letter J, about the history of language, linguistics, etymologies, and that the letter and sound are simply a new fangled invention... They can't let go.
So I just smile when I'm sitting in a cafe in Europe and hear the Americans mangle the beautiful local languages, and think of Juh-ho-vah and the tower of Babel.
Hi @EntirelyNotPossible ;) and @james_woods — then don't worry about it. If you don't believe in forever, then you don't really have time to waste. Don't spend it on this.
Now that I've gotten my sparring in, that's the difference between faith (zero evidence, besides love; stories passed through generations) and, well, evidence. Those who have faith have the opportunity at life forever with entrance into the kingdom of heaven; those who don't but yet don't decide they KNOW not will have opportunity to know and then when they know, they can decide their course. Still opportunity at life forever, not a shabby deal. I don't understand the ever quibbling on the fencer's hanging on "just in case" he's real. There is a simple answer. The dead will be judged based on their DEEDS. Do good, regardless of where your heart leaves you in faith or faithlessness, and be judged based on your deeds. So many levels of decency, depending on your treatment of those who believe. Funny, Catch 22.
You guys who are here but don't know or no longer believe, you should pick up "God Knows" by the author of Catch 22. You'll dig it, I bet. WARNING: Language. :)
@Band on the Run — I spent months with the non-use of the name in the NT and then I figured it out. I'll send you a PM.
@Phizzy You know it's interesting. I somewhat agree. However, I believe that people should be able to be free to think. Teaching the religion of not-god is as bad as teaching the religion of god. Teach a person to think, give them the tools and access to information. But you know, striking a vulnerable person isn't so nice. And, if you're wrong, then you'll be accountable for all those you treated with the intent to push your agenda, as opposed to simply being kind and helping them to a safe space to be human, and think and make their own choice. Ah, Steinbeck, "thou mayest".
@Satanus My conclusion is that Rutherford shot himself in the foot. Gotta be careful with what spirits you listen to. Those 13th-17th century ones were up to something!
I mean, I imagine we can all agree, it takes an awful lot of ignorance to fulfill 2 Thessalonians 2 in it's entirety, all on your own, right? I guess they were too busy trying to blow the trumpets of Revelation in the right order to notice that chapter.
As for the last few posts. Well, for those who don't believe in God or living forever, like the guy who posted about my daddy not ever being resurrected, then I imagine you really ought to do something better than sitting behind a keyboard on a chat room for "Jehovah's Witnesses". Isn't that just... strange?
You do realize all you're doing is helping the cause, right? More JWs get out because they find the "apostate" stuff. Let's 50% end up agnostic 25% atheist and 25% free thinkers. All of them still think you guys are mean, unless they simply decide to join you in the bitterness.
I imagine I'd like everyone here, but I can't seem to get past the people who just seem to be down right mean.
I mean this sincerely with not the way it sounds— do you guys have a life? I mean what is it that you do besides bashing the religion you once were? Have you ever heard, "it takes one to know one?"
Do you have fun outside of this incessant flame war? Are you doing anything to enjoy the 70 and minus years you have on this gorgeous planet?
No offense, but you guys should try eating some brownies which herbs and spices. Find someone who knows how to bake them, or have them shipped from California, then try to remember when life was good. Even if life was never good, because some people have always had it beyond bad, then I still promise you that you'll find a happy place and then go chase that.
But why be here either expressing misery or being miserable?
Hmmm. I think I should stop drinking red wine and posting. It's making me care about people who could just be robots behind a screen to amuse me.
:)
I used to play Everquest. We could do that instead? Does EQ still exist? :)