CALGARY - Latest Shenanigans

by Marvin Shilmer 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

    The latest:

    From: http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSLaw0203/27_jehovah-sun.html

    Lawyers block teen's testing
    By KEVIN MARTIN & MICHELLE MARK-- Sun Media

    CALGARY -- A bid to have a Jehovah's Witness teen undergoing court-ordered treatment to see a psychiatrist was scuttled yesterday -- but not before some backroom legal wrangling.

    Lawyers supporting the girl's blood transfusions emerged from a hastily arranged private chambers appearance before a city judge having successfully blocked the assessment.

    A short while earlier, Ontario counsel David Gnam had the same judge grant an order allowing the teen -- who can't be named -- to undergo psychiatric testing.

    "I thought it was outrageous that they went -- without notice to the other lawyers involved -- trying to gain a strategic advantage," said Bob Calvert, who acts for the girl's father.

    Calvert said the purported purpose of the assessment was to have a psychiatrist determine the teenager's level of maturity.

    Family court Judge Karen Jordan ruled in February the 16-year-old, who is suffering from leukemia, wasn't able to make life and death decisions on her own.

    A hearing appealing Jordan's ruling is set to take place in Court of Queen's Bench next week.

    Calvert, along with lawyers representing doctors treating the girl and the director of child welfare, convinced Justice Peter Power not to allow the teen to be examined.

    Calvert said the doctor was brought in from Ontario and is unlicensed to practice in Alberta.

  • Will Power
    Will Power

    I think an expert who knows how & what questions to ask should get over there right away!

    They are trying to assist a possible suicide.

    If a transcendal meditation guy believed his religion said he could hover in mid air and planned a jump off a cliff and his family wanted to stop him, would a judge rule that is ok for him to jump as long as that was what he & his religion really believed?

  • RunningMan
    RunningMan

    I cannot begin to express the disgust and nausea that I feel whenever I hear about the futher developments of this case.

    The actions of this organization have come as a direct result of a group that has created a fantasy world, then the originator of the fantasy has passed on, leaving the organization to zealots who actually believe their own stupid doctrines.

    The only good thing that can come out of this farce is that the JW's, who have always looked bad over blood, are making themselves look even worse.

  • JT
    JT

    runningman

    i could not agree more - what hurts so bad is the thought that in a few years the jw will change their UNCHANGEBLE DOGMA on blood and this girl will have died only because she got sick in the wrong year.

    this same type of arguement and the same bible text was quoted when a person needed a liver transplant or kidney transplant, only for folks to actually simply by default of getting sick in the wrong year.

    The judge needs to see in PRINT THE CLEAR CONSTANT CHANGING DOGMA OF WT ON BLOOD THIS WAY the judge can clearly see that this group plays with folks lives

    when a judge considers that at one time a jw could not take BLOOD FRACTIONS and so jw had to die, why would he or she want to be party to a group that flip flops on its dogmas that cost folks thier lives.

    esp when it involves KIDS

  • Kismet
    Kismet

    A reply made to the legal forum at that site:

    It is so sad to see families torn up over religion.

    The father, worried about his daughter's life, went against the faith and allowed blood transfusions to be given to his daughter. The mother disagreed. The doctors wanting to provide safe medical treatment went ahead on the father's consent.

    Since then their religion has now gotten involved resulting in long detailed expensive legal battles. Paid for by whom?? The Father. Here he is now all alone since all his family is now shunning him as well as all those that up to a month ago called themselves 'friends.'

    What is he up against? A multimillion dollar printing company (The Watchtower Scoiety) and their free lawyers. Yeah they have an entire legal department at their head office that live, eat and sleep there for free ..kinda like lawyer munks. meanwhile this Father who is just interested in saing his daughter's life has had to sell everything in order to do battle with this Goliath religion. The very one that he has supported for many years.

    One very interesting note is how the JW's are so selective in their application of Bible Principles. They are a patriarchal society. The man is head of the household (archaic as it may be that is their strict belief). But yet they trample all over that principle if it interferes with their blood principle. So two obscure passages i the Bible over rule all that is written in the bible about respecting one's parents, subjection to your parents, man being head of the house.

    I am not saying I agree with that point of view but JW's do. Yet that belief is forgotten despite the fact that the father's decision in this matter will likely save the girl's life.

    I say let the family alone and get the religious organization out of it. They don't really care about this girl. They are just interested in another teenage martyr to put on the front page of their Awake magazine as they have done in the past. I know I was at their head office for many years. I saw this happen far too many times.

    If the religion is going to get involved, why don't they offer to care for all legal costs involved rather than trying to railroad and further devastate this family? If they are truly only interested in legal precedent and seeing justice, this shouldn't be a tough call for them.

    I wish only the best for this girl and sincerely hope she gets better. Hopefully when she gets older is able to have a family, she may thank her Dad for not letting her life end so prematurely.

    Bottomline? Get the religious organization out of it. let the family and the doctors make their decisions without big brother (the Watchtower Society) getting involved

  • Kismet
    Kismet

    JT:

    My man!!! You are so spot on!! Excellent points. It is sad to think if she had gotten sick 50 years ago blood would have been allowed. Yet despite years of medical progress, the Society has gone backwards in it's acceptance of this medical standard.

    I hope they can get someone to see reason! and then charge the Society for all costs!!

    Kismet

  • Scully
    Scully

    I'm so disgusted with the underhanded dishonest tactics the WTS lawyers are using to get what they want.

    Theocratic War Strategy at its finest.

    I hope the father's lawyer is aware of the statement that the WTS made to the European Court of Human Rights in the mid-1990s regarding Bulgarian JWs.

    I posted the information on the "The Debate - Do JWs Need Respect" thread at:
    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=19283&site=3&page=4

    The case concerned the refusal to re-register the applicant association pursuant to a 1994 law, and the alleged suppression of its activities and those of its members. In settlement, the Government agreed to introduce legislation as soon as possible to provide for civilian service for conscientious objectors, as an alternative to military service, and to register the applicant association as a religion. The applicant [Jehovah's Witnesses] undertook with regard to its stance on blood transfusions to draft a statement for inclusion in its statute providing that members should have free choice in the matter for themselves and their children, without any control or sanction on the part of the association.
    Why is it OK for Bulgarian JWs to "have free choice in the matter for themselves and their children, without any control or sanction on the part of the association"?? Why, in the 21st century, in a country like Canada, where people come to claim refugee status from war-torn, freedom-denying lands, do Jehovah's Witnesses NOT have the same freedom of religion that their "brothers" in Bulgaria have?? Why does the Canadian branch of Jehovah's Witnesses need to "control and sanction" the "free choice" of Canadian JWs, but allows the "free choice" for members in Bulgaria?? Does "Jehovah" have double standards for his people?? Or is there something more behind this declaration in Bulgaria?? Money perhaps? How about recognition by the government of Bulgaria as a legitimate religious entity?

    I think Mr. Calvert, in representing "Shunned Dad", should ask the WTS's lawyers about "Theocratic War Strategy". This was part of a "mock trial" that was conducted under the "Debate" thread (link above):

    I submit for your examination the following quotations which are found in literature published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, which is read by and adhered to by Jehovah's Witnesses.

    I have taken the liberty to highlight sections of particular interest with regard to our discussion of honesty. It is generally understood that lying, or falsehood, is the opposite of truth or honesty. Kindly take note the following definition and explanation of the word "Lie", as purported by the Watchtower Society:

    *** it-2 244-5 Lie *** LIE
    The opposite of truth. Lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is entitled to know the truth and doing so with the intent to deceive or to injure him or another person. A lie need not always be verbal. It can also be expressed in action, that is, a person may be living a lie... While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it.
    *** w60 6/1 351 Questions from Readers *** • From time to time letters are received asking whether a certain circumstance would justify making an exception to the Christian's obligation to tell the truth. In reply to these the following is given:

    God's Word commands: "Speak truth each of you with his neighbor." (Eph. 4:25) This command, however, does not mean that we should tell everyone who asks us all he wants to know. We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive ... As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies.

    *** Watchtower 1957 May 1 p285, 286 Use Theocratic War Strategy *** A WITNESS of Jehovah was going from house to house in Eastern Germany when she met a violent opposer. Knowing at once what to expect she changed her red blouse for a green one in the very next hallway. No sooner had she appeared on the street than a Communist officer asked her if she had seen a woman with a red blouse. No, she replied, and went on her way. Did she tell a lie? No, she did not. She was not a liar. Rather, she was using theocratic war strategy, hiding the truth by action and word for the sake of the ministry.

    In this she had good Scriptural precedent. Did not Rahab hide the Israelite spies by both action and word? Did not Abraham, Isaac, David and others likewise hide the truth at times when faced with a hostile enemy? They certainly did, and never do we read a word of censure for their doing so. Rather, we read of their being termed exemplary servants of Jehovah. Their actions were in line with Jesus' wise counsel: "Look! I am sending you forth as sheep amidst wolves; therefore prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves."-Matt. 10:16, NW.

    Perhaps some will wonder as to where the line is to be drawn between use of theocratic war strategy in hiding the truth and the telling of lies. First of all, let it be noted that whenever one takes an oath to tell the truth he is obligated to do so. By dedicating himself to do God's will each Christian has taken a vow or made an oath to do God's will and to be faithful to him. To this oath he certainly must be true. Likewise, when a Christian is placed on a witness stand he is obligated to speak the truth if he speaks at all. At times he may prefer to refuse to speak and suffer the consequences rather than betray his brothers or the interests of God's work. And, of course, there is no occasion for use of war strategy when dealing with our Christian brothers. In dealing with them we tell the truth or tactfully remind them that what they seek to know does not concern them.

    Lies are untruths told for selfish reasons and which work injury to others. Satan told a lie to Eve that worked great harm to her and all the human race. Ananias and Sapphira told lies for selfish reasons. But hiding the truth, which he is not entitled to know, from an enemy does not harm him, especially when he would use such information to harm others who are innocent.

    A great work is being done by the witnesses even in lands where their activity is banned. The only way they can fulfill the command to preach the good news of God's kingdom is by use of theocratic war strategy. By underground methods the literature is brought into the country and distributed. Would it make sense to hide this literature by one's actions and then reveal its whereabouts by one's words when queried? Of course not! So in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth. It is done unselfishly; it does not harm anyone; on the contrary, it does much good.

    Today God's servants are engaged in a warfare, a spiritual, theocratic warfare, a warfare ordered by God against wicked spirit forces and against false teachings. God's servants are sent forth as sheep among wolves and therefore need to exercise the extreme caution of serpents so as to protect properly the interests of God's kingdom committed to them. At all times they must be very careful not to divulge any information to the enemy that he could use to hamper the preaching work.

    Your Honour, it is the position of the Prosecution, based on these direct quotes, that the Defense may, at this very moment be engaged in "Theocratic War Strategy" in his attempts to persuade the court to decide in his favour. Indeed, Your Honour, the Defense may in fact consider this Court and You, Yourself, Your Honour, to 'not be entitled to the truth'.

    Yes, indeed, if the Defense is supporting the cause of the Watchtower Society, it would not only be profitable for him to engage in "Theocratic War Strategy", but the very cause itself would DEMAND his use of it.

    Your Honour, I hereby submit that in view of these findings, it is impossible to determine whether the Defense is in fact being honest and, indeed, RESPECTFUL with this Court.

    I further submit, these questions for the Court's indulgence:

    How much respect can one have for a religion that says that it is appropriate to lie for the furtherance of their cause?

    How much respect can one have for persons who willingly submit to, and when required, will lie for the organization they represent?

    My concluding remarks in this matter shall also consist of a direct quote from the Watchtower Society:

    *** ts (Is This Life All There Is? 1974) 46 What Is This Thing Called "Soul"? ***
    ...God, who is himself "the God of truth" and who hates lies, will not look with favor on persons who cling to organizations that teach [or promote!] falsehood. (Psalm 31:5; Proverbs 6:16-19; Revelation 21:8) And, really, would you want to be even associated with a religion that had not been honest with you?
    The facts speak for themselves. The very words of the Watchtower Society itself have condemned them. The willingness to lie for the furtherance of its goals on the part of both the leadership and the adherents proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the Watchtower Society has NO RESPECT for the social propriety of respect, and therefore, does not merit the respect of anyone.
    I hope this helps a little.

    Love, Scully

  • joelbear
    joelbear

    I agree that JT has the key point which is why matters such as this should pure and simply be left up to a person's conscience and between them and God.

    Joel

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Scully,

    Send your comments to the dad.

    You have his Email.

    hawk

  • Scully
    Scully

    Hi Hawk:

    Thanks for suggesting that I forward my little "rant" to the dad. I was having one of my "LA Law" moments when I wrote it, I think.

    My main concern is not overwhelming the chap right now. Hopefully he's able to absorb all this without upsetting him more than what the situation with his daughter already has.

    I sent it earlier this evening.

    Love, Scully

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit