Isaiah 2:2,3 Thoughts?

by problemaddict 13 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  problemaddict

  I thought I would bring this to the horde. There is wisdom in the multitude of counselors after all.

  This scripture has been given to me as "irrefutable", in a discussion I am rather enjoyign with someone fairly high up, that has their doubts. I know how I would respond, but I wanted to see if there was anything more in depth that had been done here, or any things I may not have thought of.

  Here is the scripture in context.

  1 The thing that Isaiah the son of A′moz visioned concerning Judah and Jerusalem: 2 And it must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it all the nations must stream. 3 And many peoples will certainly go and say: “Come, ? YOU ? people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For out of Zion law will go forth, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. 4 And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore.

  Thoughts? This is worth the time. It is a good conversation. I hope to share later.
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  Pterist

  Anti types and spiritual significance's.

  **Earthly Zion concept of Yahweh's presence*** ......Spiritual Zion in the "heavens"

  ***And it must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains*** the final end of earthly Jerusalem and its destruction in 70 AD, which is seen by some as the end of the gentile times, that gives birth to the New House of God, which are PEOPLE "living stones" the FIRST FRUITS, first century Christian Congretion enrolled in the New Heavens as Spiritual Israel rev 7 and 14 and 20:1-6. ....they were resurrected and have heavenly rewards and authority.

  ***all the nations must stream. 3 And many peoples will certainly go and say: “Come, ? YOU ? people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For out of Zion law will go forth, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. 4 And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears.****** The blessings of the First fruits of New Israel of Yahweh that the old Earthly Israel failed to give, blessings to all nations and tongues, i.e. the great crowd on the backs of the first century Christian martyrs In their tribulation from The Roman empire. .Rev 12:1-6 Rev 7 rev 14 and rev 22:1-17. They left behind what became the New Testment, eye Withness accounts of the Messiah, and Bibical truth in the everlasting gospel that will never change ...the power of God unto salvation. Saved for good works in his righteousness NOT saved by good works in our efforts and self righteousness. .........Is there more to come physically for the entropic universe in the eternal state of immortality, I don't know,!!,! but What I do Know is That NOW is The day to be Saved.
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  leaving_quietly

  This is one I think about frequently. It would seem that this applies to JWs only if you are a JW (which I am, so this scripture bothers me a bit... sorry, can't shake it.)

  However:

  "in the final part of the days"

  What days? Most OT authors looked toward the Messiah as their "last days". Does this mean when Jesus was on earth?

  "the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains"

  When did this occur? In 1914? Or more likely when Jesus said at John 2:19? "In answer Jesus said to them: “Break down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

  "and to it all the nations must stream"

  The natural Israelites had a chance to be a kingdom of priests. (Ex 19:6) But, they blew it. So, Jesus said at Matt 22:37,38: "“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her,—how often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks together under her wings! But YOU people did not want it. ?Look! YOUR house is abandoned to YOU."

  So, Paul was made an apostle to the nations. (Rom 11:13). The Gentiles were being invited in, thus "all nations".

  And many peoples will certainly go and say: “Come, YOU people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.”

  Many people preach. Not just JWs. Don't believe me? Just read sermons online. They're full of preaching, just like JWs. Many of them use God's name. Who is to say that only JWs do this?

  For out of Zion law will go forth, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. 4 And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore.

  You got me. Since judgment hasn't been rendered, yet, I would venture to say that this has not been fulfilled. Once judgment has been rendered and matters are set straight, then we will see the latter part in it's entirety, where entire nations will not war against other nations, not just JWs in one country not warring against JWs in another country.

  Just my opinion on this. Read the commentaries at bible.cc on these verses. It's kinda all over the board. Who is right? Who isn't? Who's to say?
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  Ding

  Wouldn't a JW just spiritualize all of it and say it's referring to everyone who survives or is resurrected living on a paradise earth in the new system, learning the ways of and serving Jehovah?
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  srd

  Refers to the Assyrian destruction of Israel in 722 BC and its aftermath --- Judah as sole authoritative cult of Yahweh and his laws.

  Get real people, and let's start being honest to the texts and their authors, and the historical crisis that prompted these authors to write what they did in the first place. http://contradictionsinthebible.com
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  Pterist

  SRD *** Refers to the Assyrian destruction of Israel in 722 BC and its aftermath --- Judah as sole authoritative cult of Yahweh and his laws.****

  Was not this specific reference to the fall of Judah and Jerusalem when Babylon dominated for approximately 70 years and destroyed Jerusalem in 587BC ?
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  Ucantnome

  the hills; and to it all the nations must stream. 3 And many peoples will certainly go and say: “

  I think it had it's fulfillment from the first century onward.

  Like Isaiah 11:10 and Romans 15:12.
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  AGuest

  Maybe this will help, dear PA (peace to you):

  Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 12:22-24

  ... if explained to you by means of this:

  Matthew 17:5; John 10:1-5, 27; Proverbs 8:4-7

  ... which can be done by means of this:

  John 4:10, 14; John 7:37-39

  ... which can be obtained by means of this:

  John 6:48-58; Luke 11:13; Revelation 3:18

  ... so as to result in this:

  John 14:23; Romans 8:9

  ... which allows for this:

  John 16:13

  And, thus, this:

  1 John 2:26-28.

  I hope that helps you "see" what is meant by those verses you ask about. Because truly, all you need to do IS ask; just not us here.

  Again, peace to you!

  YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA
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  BluesBrother

  This is irrefutably describing J W's only if you already believe that :

  Judah & Jerusalem paralell the world today and Christendom

  The Mountain of the House of Jehovah = J W and WTS and they have been "lifted up"

  God of Jacob = not the Jews but JW's

  All of that is human reasoning, not what is actually written in the Scripture
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  yadda yadda 2

  Irrefutable of what???