607 - What is it all about?

by leaving_quietly 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  leaving_quietly

  Thanks, everyone...

  And, thanks, especially to you, TD. I learned something.

  So, it's not just me. This is a made up prophecy. Good grief!

  Now, of course, taking Jesus words into consideration, there is something there. Jerusalem fell in <insert your favorite year here>, true, but it did not continue "trampled on by the nations." One could argue that when it fell, it was no longer trampled on because it was desolated for seventy years! I tend to think TD is right, that the Roman occupation would be the starting point, and the ending point was when it was destroyed again in 70 C.E.
• 

  Honesty

  Much ado about nothing.
• 

  Finkelstein

  The WTS.'s doctrines/beliefs are and were weakly devised and created doctrines which were created mostly out drawing attention

  from the public eyes and ears as a means to proliferate this religious publishing house literature.

  Thats of course if one was to be intellectually honest .

  The WTS. is now apologizing for its past proclaimed false information, what a con job.

  Its created a lot of wealth and power, so there you have it.
• 

  Emery

  Also, in Daniel chapter 4, Daniel clearly explains everything at the end, he states, "THIS IS THE INTERPRETATION". Whatever possessed them to read into this chapter anything but Neb being a human cow for 7 years is beyond me. If this doesnt embarass any JW lurkers, it should...the WT turned a perfectly understandable story into a double fullfilling modern day prophecy. The use of the word "interpret" is used 5 times throughout this chapter to define the main point and it's context being the significance of Nebuchadnezzar's dream, that's it! This is not the starting point for some complicated mathematical equation used to figure out the parousia of the messiah thousands of years.

  28 “This is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree the Most High has issued against my lord the king: 25 You will be driven away from people and will live with the wild animals; you will eat grass like cattle and be drenched with the dew of heaven. Seven times will pass by for you until you acknowledge that the Most High is sovereign over the kingdoms of men and gives them to anyone he wishes. 26 The command to leave the stump of the tree with its roots means that your kingdom will be restored to you when you acknowledge that Heaven rules. 27 Therefore, O king, be pleased to accept my advice: Renounce your sins by doing what is right, and your wickedness by being kind to the oppressed. It may be that then your prosperity will continue.”
• 

  Pterist

  607 BC date is the corner stone foundation that the WBTS uses for its self acclaimed office of being selected as God's only organisation to preach the end of the Gentiles times and the altered good news of the kingdom of God. Without that foundation being correct, they fall.
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  Emery

  Sorry I put a 28 instead of a 24 for Daniel 4:24
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  Londo111

  Of course, the Seven Gentile Times interpretation of 2520 years stretching from 607 BC to 1914 is flimsily as clay mixed with iron. However, since this is THE central doctrine of the JW version of the good news, every aspect deserves scrutiny. There are many roads to understanding in the flaws of this tenant and not everyone will arrive by the same path. 607 is one path, but it is the Achilles’ Heel of JW theology, and so if a JW is awakening, it is very useful for them to review. Of course, this has been mentioned already, but I would like to add a few points:

  (1) The Watchtower likes to create a false choice: Either believe the Bible OR secular scholars. However, the Bible itself points to the 587/586 timeframe, and there is just no way of getting 607 out of it.

  (2) There is not ONE shred of evidence for 607, but there are 17 lines of evidence that make 587 a slam dunk. There is literals tons of evidence.

  To name three:

  (a) There are many Babylonian astronomical diaries that fix the Neo-Babylonian chronology, the chief of which is VAT 4956 which details Nebuchadnezzar’s 37 th year (Jerusalem was destroyed in his 18 th ). It list about 40 planetary and lunar observations that taken together could only occur once in tens of thousands of years.

  (b) Over 40000+ cuneiform business receipts from time period found all over ancient Babylon, timestamped with the name of the King, year, month and day of his reign. For the Watchtower’s chronology to work there would have to be 20 extra years, even extra kings, but these cuneiform tablets show this is impossible.

  (c) The Adad-guppi stele made during the time of Nabonidus which details the length of each king’s rule.

  For brevities sake, I will pause there. But all the 17 lines of evidence harmonize hand to glove. It is just too overwhelming to deny…almost like trying to deny the Earth is round or revolves about the sun.

  (3) The most damning thing is the journalistic dishonest of the Watchtower. It’s one thing to believe something and present one’s case—everybody has that right. It’s another thing to misquote and misrepresent scholars, give references to support an argument but those citations when the references cited are examined, they say nothing of the sort. To me, 607 represents a master class in Watchtower deception.

  Despite all this, it is a thoughtcrime in the Watchtower’s opinion to hold any other view than 607/1914 worthy of everlasting death and can result in shunning of all one’s friends and family. Upholding the truth of the matter comes at great cost.
• 

  Londo111

  An addendum on the endpoint of the Watchtower’s Seven Gentile Times:

  (1) Since 1914, famines and pestilence have been on the decrease in comparison to previous centuries. Crime has declined in places. Sometimes it increases, but these things go in cycles, rather than getting worse and worse. There is no "composite sign".

  (2) World War I was not the worst war up to that time in regard to casualties, there were wars in the 18 th and 19 th century that equaled or exceeded it in scope and deaths. WWI was not a shock when they broke out. A great European War had long been expected for tensions had been brewing for decades previous.

  (3) The Bible Students were one of many Adventists offshoots, each with their own date predictions. There were perhaps over two dozen Gentile Times predictions with endpoints occurring either in the 19 th or 20 th century, all the way up to 1934. With all those dates floating around, SOMETHING had to occur in one of those years. Had WWI occurred later, it may have been another Adventist offshoot who would have seized that as proof of their prediction.

  (4) For decades, Russell had predicted that 1914 would be the END of the time of troubles, not the beginning. Like the Second Adventists from whom his group split from, he believed the last days started in 1799, that Jesus returned invisibly in 1874, and that Jesus became King in 1878 or 1881 or thereabouts. He believed that the 1000 years had began, which is why they were called the Millennial Dawners, since they believed the Millennium had dawned.

  With all this in mind, 1914 is not the "marked year" it is made out to be.
• 

  Tiktaalik

  That's a great summary Londo.
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  redvip2000

  It is understood that our friends in Bethel clearly know that the date of 1914 is false. They are not stupid as they have analyzed the same evidence.

  The issue is that the fact that WW1 started in 1914 is an "all too precious nugget" to be simply discarted. If WW1 had started in a different date, this 1914 date would have long been changed or discarded, even it it meant making up some BS to justify changing 1919 to another date as well.