Should Employers be WARNED about Jehovahs Witnesses

by BlindersOff1 47 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  JeffT

  Eustace, I'm glad I don't work for you. Who else don't you like?

  I don't know where you live, but what you're talking about is against the law in the US plain and simple. Yes, it also works the other way. If I apply for a job and get told they won't hire me because I'm not a JW I'm calling the local human rights commission. A business that practices discrimination in the US isn't going to be a business for long.

  Asking prospective employees if they can respect privacy and confidentiality laws, and basing a hiring decision on the answer; is perfectly legal. I've done it all the time as an accounting supervisor.
• 

  Eustace

  You seem to be referring to JW owned companies that only hire other witnesses.

  Yes I am.

  Mormons and other insular type religions have small business owners that do this too.

  And they should be prosecuted too, if the US is going to have this law against religion based discrimination.

  In reality, what they are doing is hiring from their circle of friends and acquaintences and people their friends and acquaintences reccommend. Because all of their friends are JWs, you can't really separate the two.

  The effect is the same. That's the important thing.

  And it's not illegal to hire only people you know that you or have a mutual friend with.

  Given that this technique is used by certain religions as a loophole to get around laws that other Americans are forced to follow, it should be illegal. Religious discrimination in employment is religious discrimination in employment, even if a trick is used to get around the current understanding of the law.

  Now if they advertized the job and had a lot of people come in to interview and only hire the JWs, because they are JWs, that would be illegal.

  The effect would be the same as what they're currently doing, so if you support the above being illegal maybe you should also support what they're currently doing being illegal?

  Why should some jobs be off-limits for non-Jehovah's Witnesses, but then Jehovah's Witnesses have access to all the other jobs besides?

  On the other hand, I don't even know how you would implement what you are suggesting about warning employers, if one could get past how offensive it is.

  Just tell an employer in a business dealing with confidential matters that the Watchtower requires of Jehovah's Witnesses in terms of violating confidentiality to the elders of the religion.

  And if it's really so offensive to have a job for all intents and purposes not open to JWs, why isn't it equally offensive for JW owned companies to have jobs which are for all intents and purposes not open to non-JWs?

  From a legal standpoint, sure, I get that the JWs and Mormons have found a way around the law, but I don't see how that makes what they're doing less offensive, if it's offensive to take religious beliefs into account when it comes to employment.

  I once heard an older JW man who owned a company ask if a JW who was being referred for a job was still active in the ministry or not. So don't think there isn't a strong religious component to how JW owned companies hire people.

  It is illegal to ask someone what religion they belong to in employment applications or interviews. So how would they even know?

  A lot of companies these days check out potential employees on Facebook. That could be one way.
• 

  Eustace

  Who else don't you like?

  I would be less likely to hire anyone trying to recruit people into a organization that refuses to respect the right of their members to freely leave, such as the JWs or Scientologists. An employer has an obligation to protect his or her employees, IMO.

  Yes, it also works the other way. If I apply for a job and get told they won't hire me because I'm not a JW I'm calling the local human rights commission.

  Yeah, so obviously they aren't going to give that as the reason. Having to be circumspect isn't going to stop them from discriminating against you, however, so what right do they have to complain if a circumspect "worldling" followed their lead?
• 

  Eustace

  Asking prospective employees if they can respect privacy and confidentiality laws, and basing a hiring decision on the answer; is perfectly legal. I've done it all the time as an accounting supervisor.

  That's a fair point, JeffT.

  It's just a question of whether you want to take the risk of trusting the answer you're given. My experience of "Theocratic Warfare" being practiced to my detriment makes me less likely to extend that trust than a lot of other people probably would be.
• 

  Chaserious

  the Watchtower requires Jehovah's Witnesses in terms of violating confidentiality to the elders of the religion.

  I don't think this is correct. Isn't it a "conscience matter"?

  The effect is the same. That's the important thing

  Given that this technique is used by certain religions as a loophole to get around laws that other Americans are forced to follow, it should be illegal

  I don't agree. Small businesses have a lot of leeway as to who they hire, and I think there are compelling arguments why it should be that way. First of all, it's not used by the religions themselves as a loophole; it's used by members of the religions. As far as I know, there is no WT direction that if a JW owns a business, they should only hire other JWs. Some just choose to do that, and I have known of JWs who employed non-JWs.

  Let's say John Doe wants to follow the American Dream and start a business. Maybe a restuaurant. To start off with, he hires his wife, his sons, his sister, and his cousins. It's a family business. Being from the same family, they are all Catholic. Imagine that the business does well, and John decides to hire a couple of his son's friends from school as waiters. Since the sons went to Catholic high school, the friends happen to be Catholic also. He may not want to place a newspaper or internet ad but hire his family and family friends that he thinks he can trust. Are you telling me that you would force a business owner like this to hire someone that he doesn't know just so he has a religiously diversified staff? I am sure this kind of thing happens all over the US in small businesses. People like to hire their friends and family, and religious people often have most of their friends and family in the same religions as them.

  It's a dangerous road you want to go down. The effect being the same is not a good reason. That is not what laws are based on. Lots of jobs in small businesses are off limits to lots of people. Go to any family owned dry cleaners or gas station or barber shop or law firm or convenience store and see if you can get a job there. Now if someone got fired because they got DF'd, like someone else mentioned, that would be a problem and they should make a stink about it. Asking how active somebody is in the ministry in a job interview is probably over the line too and could be a problem if the person wanted to pursue it.
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  Eustace

  While I think it’s acceptable under current law for a small business to discriminate in favor of family and friends, for reasons you've alluded to, it’s a violation of current law to take into account religion.

  My experience is that JW employees do take into account how “spiritual” a job applicant is. It was talked about openly when I was in.

  Pioneers trumped publishers, for example, and an inactive one wouldn’t be given any consideration at all.

  That’s taking into account someone’s religious beliefs in hiring, is it not?
• 

  Eustace

  Asking how active somebody is in the ministry in a job interview is probably over the line too and could be a problem if the person wanted to pursue it.

  The thing is it wasn't asked in the job interview. It was a question asked of the JW who was referring the JW job applicant.

  Do you think that was a problem?
• 

  Chaserious

  Also, the federal law against discrimination in employment only applies to employers of 15 people or more, for precisely the reasons we have been discussing. Almost every JW business I knew of fell into that category. Some states have their own laws where you might be able to do something if the discrimination is blatant, even for a small employer. So if it was a business of 15 or more, asking how active someone is, even of the referring person, would probably be enough to make a case, if the referring person is willing to cooperate, of course.