I am totally confoused who is the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class? (page 5)

Splash

@franticfran

It's true. Of course to become part of the GB/FDS you HAVE to be anointed.

They were all born after 1935 BTW.

Splash

"I have just this minute had a brother from the congregation here and he told me that the eight members of the governing body are annointed. True? False? tell me, I cant believe that they can claim that given their ages."

YES! This has always been the case, according to their own [made-up] teachings.

Joepublisher1

Excuse me, I should have worded that in WTS loaded language: "The EVIDENCE and FACTS indicate that the Governing Body have always been anointed." - Any old WTS literature.

konceptual99

Splash said...

WT 07 1/1 said the 1st resurrection began between 1914-1935 and some resurrected ones are communicating truths to the GB. The new teaching is that this resurrection will not occur until they are judged and appointed over all his belongings in the future.

I'd not picked up on this before and I don't recall seeing this clearly spelt out by the WT in their summary. Is this an inference deduced from the reasoning that the F&DS do not get there appointment over the belongings until the GT (i.e. after a rapture to the heavens)? It's not clear to me that the teaching that any anointed person who dies post 1919 gets an instant resurrection to heaven has changed. I don't see that the reward of a heveanly resurrection has become the same as the reward of being appointed over all the belongings. Having said that, it's not 100% clear that the inference cannot be made.

The reality is that it's all a load of tripe and does not really matter but I will be interested to see if the WTS ever picks up on this point and explains it properly via the pages of the WT or even in a DC talk. Perhaps the delay is because someone has only recently realised this aspect of the new doctrine is affected and they are trying to work out what to say!

It would be quite a change to say that non of the annointed are in heaven yet...

Joepublisher1

You know konceptual99, YOU raised an interesting point with me [and excuse me for injecting this observation]. I used to have difficulty explaining some things as a JW. Now I know why. The WTS has built a VERY confusing religion based on a plethora of teachings that go BEYOND the things written, speculation, and pure [man-made] interpretation of what this and that scripture means.

For some JWs, that proves to them why they need the WTS leaders, because on their own they could never keep all of this stuff straight. But, the truth is, the WTS leaders themselves have a record of changing teachings that only end up causing MORE questions. The details of their teachings are more complicated and entangled than JWs realize! It also fits the expression, when you tell one lie you usually have to tell another and another... getting to the point that you can't even remember all the lies that you've told.

For so many JWs, the complicated [and even contradictory] nature of some teachings turned out to be a RED flag. The "truth" shouldn't be so complicated - that is, if it's REALLY the truth. (I honestly don't know how the GB can live with themselves - it takes a lot of self-delusion to calm one's conscience, something Ray Franz couldn't ignore...his own respect for what his conscience was telling him caused him to take action and expose the religion that he once loved [when he was under the spell of the WTS.])

Joepublisher1

It has been pointed out many times that the WTS looks for scriptures to support their theology/view/understanding and this forum post is just another example of how much trouble is caused by forcing certain scriptures to mean one thing, only to have it come back in the future and bite you in the rear! (If this happened only once or twice, it may be excusable, but this is a common thread of the entire history of this religion - which by the way boldly calls itself “the truth”. That contradiction is why I call this religion both a hoax and a scam! It doesn't matter how sincere the WTS leaders may appear either, even the WTS says this about Christendom - 'sincerity alone is not a sign that they have the truth or are under God's protection'.)

Splash

@konceptual99

Here are the salient words from the official website quote.

When Does Jesus Appoint the Slave “Over All His Belongings”?

Jesus’ appointment of the “slave” over his “belongings,” then, must also be a future event. He will make that appointment during the great tribulation.

What Are Jesus’ “Belongings”?

Jesus’ “belongings” thus include more than just his earthly interests. They include the Messianic Kingdom.—Philippians 2:9-11.

Consequently, Jesus will reward “the faithful and discreet slave” by resurrecting the individual members of that group to heavenly life and by giving them royal authority over all Christ’s belongings in heaven and on earth.

Summary:

1. The FDS is appointed over Christ's belongings in the future.

2. The Belongings are both earthly and heavenly.

3. Consequently (therefore) Christ will (future tense) resurrect the members and give them authority over the belongings (which we just learned is future).

Put another way, why would any be resurrected to heaven before they are given roles/authority there, what would they be doing?

So even though the WT have not written it in plain language (do they ever?), what conclusion can you draw except that the FDS resurrection is still future, tied to the approval and reward?

Splash.

konceptual99

@Splash

Thanks for posting the text from the website. I agree that it's clear that the appointment over the belongings is a future event, part of the GT according to the first quote. The second section backs this up.

I'd read the the aspect of resurrecting the individual members of the F&DS to heavenly life as the "rapture" of those members of the F&DS still alive on earth to heaven during the GT - i.e. the GB at the time of the GT. Don't forget they reiterated the notion that some of the anointed will be present to see the onset of the big A when vomiting the overlapping generations teaching.

So.. the conclusion I had drawn was that members of the anointed and, by extension, any of the GB that die during the "last days" would be resurrected to heaven immediately (as per old doctrine) thus getting that part of the reward. As a group, they would then be rewarded with appointment over the belongings during the GT thanks to the work of the those identified as the GB "class" (as there was no formal GB back then) since 1919.

I had not reached the same conclusion you had. I'm certainly not suggesting you are wrong since the whole thing is about as clear as mud, just that I had reached a different conclusion and had missed your interpretation. The way you have suggested it be interpreted does raise some very interesting questions:

1 - did any of the anointed who died pre 1919 get a resurrection in 1919 (or is it 1914 - need to check)

2 - do anointed ones (bearing in mind they are not the F&DS unless they are also on the GB) get an immediate resurrection if they die before the appointment of the 144000 over all the master's belongings?

3 - do any of the F&DS get a resurrection if they die during the last days

4 - do the anointed and/or the GB only get resurrected once the appointment over all his belongings is made

So, in answer to your question as to " what conclusion can you draw except that the FDS resurrection is still future, tied to the approval and reward?" I would say that you could draw at least one, perhaps several other, conclusions, simply because the whole thing is reactionary tripe from the mentalists in Brooklyn and has not been properly dealt with as yet.

I do, however, really like the fact that your conclusion throws up even more questions that are not easily explained away.

Joepublisher1

Nice analysis Splash! - I appreciate what you did. Sometimes I find it painful to have to read their sometimes intentionally vague explanations - but like you said, '"do they ever" spell it out in plain language?' [LOL]. If they would only write it out like they do for the various ways you can donate money to them, or how to book a room in a hotel for the D.C. and other mundane policies like that, you wouldn't have to guess whether you are reading and understanding their explanations in the manner it was intended to be understood.

If your analysis is correct - and it appears to me it is - the JWs are going to have to trash that Bethel lingo about when an anointed dies and is buried. Remember this one: "they're being placed in their launching pad!" [based on being changed in 'a twinkling of an eye']. Goodness, this religion has come up with so much crap over the decades! It's really sad. Leaves me wondering, "when are the vast majority of JWs going to wake up?!?!"

wallsofjericho

yes it is amazing that they have been dispensing proper food at the proper time . yet no one encluding there own followers can explain any of it..

great point. The WTS prints blurbs here and there over multiple artciles and years but never puts it all in once place at one time. This creates the "I know I heard it explained before but I can't seem to rembember all the details" scenario among r&f. This contributes to the original poster's thought that this is what "they" always taught. Many J-Dubs feel this way about many things.

Cedars has it right about the F&DS. The other thing is that the great crowd are now included among the domestics. Previously the domestics = F&DS (typically those anointed not dispensing food)
Now the domestics are anointed and great crowd/other sheep obeying the F&DS (which is the GB only)

I am totally confoused who is the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class?

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