Anti-JW Cult: Why did you enslave yourself to new doctrines without fully investigating their validity first?

by Change Name 29 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Ding

  I don't know of anyone who claims that Johannes Greber translated the NWT.

  What happened is that the WTS cited Greber's "translation" in support of the WTS' "a god" rendering in John 1:1 and that they did this KNOWING that he was a spiritist who claimed that spirits aided him in his translation.

  After critics of the WTS pointed this out, they stopped citing him and tried to make it look as if they just discovered his spiritist connection. In fact, they had denounced him as a spiritist years earlier in the WT but persisted in quoting his "translation" as support for their John 1:1 rendering in the NWT until critics publicly called them on it.

  As far as false prophecy is concerned, the WTS has gone WAY beyond quoting Bible prophecy. While claiming to be Jehovah's spokesman, they have claimed to know specific dates referred to in those Bible verses. Yet, what the WTS in Jehovah's name said would happen didn't happen. By Deuteronomy 18, that makes them false prophets.
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  Aussie Oz

  Seeing that changename has not seen fit to return to his thread, i would declare:

  ''I saw this on Yahoo Answers and wondered about your reaction to it''.

  To be bullshit, he is not wondering about our reaction at all...

  oz
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  NoRegrets

  I think this might be a plant either from an apologist or a straight-up, active JW! Either way, the reaction you were hoping for with the tears and anger and floundering fearfulness is simply not here. Nothing but a yawn!

  When you don't feel insecure in your beliefs, things like this don't really register as you know how outlandish and easily disprovable they are. As far as how secure you are in your beliefs Change Name? Well.......?!?!?!?!?!?

  No Regrets
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  zed is dead

  Because it was my fucking life! I had no previous reality to go back to.

  zed
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  Change Name

  thanks for the answers...

  Hi Satanus - Yes, please close your eyes. Shove your head in the sand. Do not ever contemplate what I bring out.

  Hi Resistance is Futile - I believe that Mr. Russell was at one time a pyramidologist. I think the following article gives a good explanation about it.

  http://searchforbibletruths.blogspot.com/2011/06/charles-t-russell-and-pyramid.html

  Hi Aussie Oz - Lets take this point by point -

  1) Apparently both the Freemasons and Russell deny his membership.

  2) What is have seen is that most former Witnesses do not consider anything that defends the JWs. The following article shows how you are incorrect.

  http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

  3) I wonder why you do not care. I find this false accusation fascinating.

  4) Your own research probably consists of taking other peoples research and making it your own. From what I have gathered, in order to be a prophet of God you need to receive a new prophesy. Jesus was a prophet of God. He received two large prophesies and gave one to John to deliver to his disciples. Christians throughout the ages have done their best to understand these prophesies and have made some mistakes. These Christians started in the 1st century making claims that Jesus would come back in their lifetime to today when people still make statements about Jesus coming. People can be wrong on interpretation of Bible prophesy and still be a Christian and not a false prophet.

  5) I have done some good research in this topic. I do not believe that they protect child molesters. They are human and make mistakes believing people turn to Jesus and will not comitt these arocities again. But of course they are wrong. A child molester will always be a child molester.

  Hi Smiddy - Thank you for not giving me your reaction to what I found on Yahoo Answers. From what I have read, Jehovah's Witnesses teach that independent thinking apart from what the Bible teaches is a disaster waiting to happen. I have not experiened nor read anything about a hive mentality that many opposers like to bring up.

  Hi Julia - One of the teachings that I happen to agree with is that Satan is trying to bring down all the humans he can when he is destroyed. Most Trinitarian Christians believe in Satan as well. The difference between Jehovah's Witnesses and Trinitarians is that JW's believe that we live in Satan's world and Trinitarians believe that we live in God's world.

  Hi LouBelle - I see general statements like these all the time. I always wonder what exactly do you mean?

  Hi Mum - So you decided not to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses because your parents were messed up in the head and you thought that was normal? Sounds like you did not want to be a Christian and wanted to go your own way and blame your parents for all the things you missed. Maybe I am wrong.

  Hi Blinders- Have not been back there for a couple days. Which one is your answer?

  Hi Ding - I have seen claims made by many that Greber translated the NWT. One named Galatians 5;1 made this claim on a regular basis. Maybe that is what Jonathan is referring to.

  Hi again Assie Oz - Oh come off it. I work for a living and have a family. The internet is not my life.

  Hi NoRegrets - Nice. A conspiracy theory for little ole me. I was wondering what the hardcore anti-JW's thought about this question. I know that most former JW's will not become JW's again because they hate the lifestyle. The meetings are boring, or going d2d sucks, or you have to get married before having sex... there are many complaints from former JW's. I do not even expect the majority will even consider what I will bring out. They believe that the WT is an evil organization out to ruin the world. Nothing will change their minds.

  Hi Zed - What you do to get DF'ed? If you got DFed, was it you who ruined your life or was it the "org"? People accuse the JW's of laying blame on other people for their mistakes but from what I gather it is really hard to get DF'ed. Putting the blame on a group of people for your actions is rather classless.
• 

  mrsjones5

  And a happy Sunday to you too.
• 

  designs

  He's my little contribution to the thread- In 1976 a very good friend, George, left the Org. along with his wife over the 1975 fiasco. I was so jealous of them and still am.
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  Resistance is Futile

  Thank you for being honest and acknowledging that Russell was indeed a pyramidologist, as your link confirmed.

  Change Name, I appreciate your contributions to the forum. I can tell that you're a courageous person that's really interested in truth, otherwise I don't suspect that you would be investigating the Watchtower's history in such detail. Some on the forum may lash out at you, but you'll have to forgive them. The actions of the Watchtower and its corporate policy enforcers have caused much pain and sorrow to many families. Lashing out is understandable considering the emotions involved.

  Back to question #1. I don't believe that Russell was Freemason, nor do I believe this is a very common view either. Don't you think perhaps this is a straw-man argument you've created? Are you humble and honest enough to admit that the statement about the pyramid monument at Russell's gravesite being a directory for those buried in the lot is in fact a falsehood? I'm curious if this was intentional deception on your part, or merely just a mistake made out of zeal to defend Russell's honor. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the later. You've confirmed that Russell was a pyramidologist, so we can move on.

  Question #2. It seems like we're splitting hairs. You've admitted that the Watchtower signed up as a NGO, but you don't prefer to call it "joining" the UN. I understand the quibbling over terminology, but if we want to speak as accurate and truthfully as possible, it must be noted that the Watchtower Corporation was officially an "Associate Member of the United Nations Department of Public Information". During the time the Watchtower was signed up as a NGO didn't they print pro-UN articles in their publications? How do you honestly feel about the Watchtower printing articles that promoted and praised the work being performed by the scarlet colored wild beast of Revelation? Shouldn't that bother our Bible trained consciences just a little bit?
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  cedars

  Like their Watchtower masters, JW apologists are well versed in the dark arts of lies, deceit and subterfuge...

  http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/secrecy-and-deception-watchtower-fights-dirty-in-its-war-against-apostates

  This particular specimen says...

  2 - The Watchtower Society joined the United Nations
  Again, a lie. The agreement they signed in the early '90s clearly stated that this did not make them a member of the UN, & it allowed them to have access to the UN's research materials.

  A letter from the UN puts it rather differently. The letter, available on this link, says...

  "By accepting association with DPI [the Department of Public Information], the [Watchtower] organization agreed to meet criteria for association, including support and respect for the principles of the Charter of the United Nations and commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes with its constituents and to a broader audience about UN activities."

  Cedars
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  jgnat

  1 - C.T. Russell was a Freemason & Pyramidologist

  Strawman. I don't think C. T. Russell was a freemason for the reasons you stated. He did use the pyramidology to verify his calculations. His early writings are now available at www.archive.org if you would like to check it out.

  2 - The Watchtower Society joined the United Nations

  I vote for Cedar's answer as most comprehensive. Again, you've mis-stated the WTS critic's stance.

  3 - Johannas Grieber, priest & spiritist, translated the New World Translation

  Rephrase the claim as Ding has described so well.

  4 - JW's are false prophets

  What else do you call an organization that has made repeated claims about the future of this world, the return of Jesus and other worthies, and none of it has happened?

  http://www.towerwatch.com/Witnesses/Prophecies/failed_prophecies.htm

  In ancient times, Kings depended on their spies, necromancers, and prophets for information (Daniel 2:1-2). Then as now, information is power. Nowadays, Presidents use spies, futurists and Economists. How long does an Economist remain in the President's employ if he is consistently wrong?

  5 - They protect child-abusers

  My own church has a stronger policy than the Witnesses. In my church, anyone who works with children undergoes training and a criminal record check. Do elders undergo a criminal records check? The internal judicial process, in my opinion, interferes with the regular operation of the law. Elders are untrained to investigate and judge on matters of child abuse, and their bumbling might end up intimidating the witness and alert the perpetrator to destroy evidence. The two witness rule denies justice. Secular courts have ruled that evidence such as fiber and fluids, serve as the second witness.

  My additions:

  6 - Shunning of ex-members is a red flag that this is a high-control group that is not prepared to accept criticism.

  7 - Encouraging young adults to set aside a college education in favor of field service is stunting the talent of generations of Witnesses.