Hi Julia.
Data is my favorite character from Star Trek - ever. I'm glad you held your ground.
As to their speculation about your depression - that actually might be a good "explanation" you can use for missing meetings and field service. They will buy that, because they've seen a LOT of clinical depression in their midst. When I was a ministerial servant in the 1980's, our circuit overseer met with the elders and us, and one thing he said was that each congregation in the circuit (about 20 congregations) had at least one clinically depressed individual. They couldn't figure it out.
They can't determine (or won't admit) that the religion's expectations beats people down.
And they don't know what the hell they're saying when comparing you to Korah. In the Bible account, Korah tried to set up a resistance movement to Moses and Aaron. I seriously doubt you're trying to establish yourself as a spiritual leader to take congregation members away. Like I said, as they are beating you up they are using incindiary language. You could tell them that when they compared you to Korah, it put you into a depressed state - because you aren't interested in leading people away from the congregation!
Best wishes however this all turns out.
an elder will be at my house in one hour HELP!
by Julia Orwell 43 Replies latest jw friends
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Gopher
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transhuman68
I've got no experience with any of this, as I never got baptised- but it is good that you were able to avoid directly answering their questions. You may find yourself being targeted more often than your husband; as a 'brother' is more useful to the organization than a 'sister' is ever allowed to be, so you might be DF'ed first- regardless of circumstances. The Borg doesn't care if it destroys families and causes people to be divorced by its actions- as long as it gets what it wants- so do be careful.
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LostGeneration
How on board is your husband with leaving the b0rg forever? That kind of questioning and abuse is certainly grounds to be "stumbled" and the reason many exit the org immediately.
If he is on board, I see no reason to ever set foot in a KH again. The next time the elders call you can simply say how astounded you and your husband were at they oppresive line of questioning last time, and that its going to take a long, long time to get over it.
Good luck!
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Pickler
Good luck Julia, it's Sunday night....have a glass of wine, watch a movie, have some food!
Can you just not go ever again? Or at least, refuse to talk to them ever again.....I hope so....
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jemba
Hopefully with this out of the way you guys both knowing TTATT can slowly make your exit. Do u have family 'in'?
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hellenback
Open the door in the sexiest bedwear you have & as you open the the door wink & invite them in for a three way. You will never see them again or have a lot of explaining to do with hubby.
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Juan Viejo2
Julia, I'm sorry, but I came to this late.
I spoke to a JW lady on the phone last week for about 20 minutes. She called me because she was a friend of a friend of someone who knew me and had my cell phone number. Someday in the future she wants to write an article for one of my websites about a visit she got from the elders. Your story reminded me of hers...
Apparently she and her "husband" (they're not really married but have been together for over a dozen years) have been going to the Kingdom Hall in their rural town (I won't give the state or city area, for obvious reasons). The Kingdom Hall used to have about 110 regular publishers plus a few unbaptized kids. Attendance was about 50% for the mid-week meeting and about 80% for the Sunday meetings. The CO determined that the problem was that about half the congregation was Hispanic, so he decided to split the congregation into English and Spanish meetings at different times. So for the English language congregation there was about 45 members and the Spanish congregation was about 60. After the split, the English side attendance kept falling off a little each month. At some point this sister couldn't hack it any more as the meetings were boring (yeah! she said that!) and the Watchtower Study became a joke, with about ten members answering every question. It was so boring that the two MS brothers spent all their time outside acting as parking lot attendants and all the elders not on the stage were hanging outside the main entry door gossiping. She said that at one meeting she could only count 15 seats actually occupied during most of the Watchtower study.
Anyway she had enough and decided to only go about once a month. After a few months, she'd go about once every 5-7 weeks. After about six months she got a call from one of the elders letting her know that he and another brother would be coming by for a "shepherding call." At first she was terrified that she was going to be DF'd or at least reproved for her poor meeting attendance. Her "husband" had stopped going completely except for the Memorial.
She told me that she became so fearful about what might happen that she actually went for a very long walk and spent the whole time praying for guidance. She cracked me up as she recounted her "conversation with Jehovah" during her long walk. She shared her feelings: "Jehovah, you know how bad those meetings are. You know how stupid those prayers sound. The music? I know you didn't write the tunes or the lyrics. Going to meetings is painful. I can learn more just staying home and studying the literature. But have you actually seen some of the stuff the Governing Body is writing? I know you have nothing to do with that - I don't equate stupid and illogical with You, Lord."
She said that when she started her walk the temperature was near freezing and a brisk wind was blowing, sometime nearly knocking her off her feet. By the time she got home, the wind had softened to a breeze and the sun was shining. She was so warm she had to drop her hood and unzip her jacket. It was like Jehovah had improved the weather as a way to tell her he had heard her. But after that walk she had been inspired and knew what she had to do.
When one of the elders and another mature brother showed up at her house she was ready for them. She told me that she went out of her way to make them feel welcome, making them coffee and offering them some pastries she had. She asked about all of the other brothers and sisters. Then she let them pray and read a couple of scriptures and ask her how she was feeling and why she hadn't been coming to the meetings recently. After assuring them that her health had never been better, she told them about her feeling unsatisfied going to meetings and what it felt like when she was there.
"I worry that Jehovah has left that place. I don't feel his presence in the Kingdom Hall at all. Do you? Everybody that shows up can't wait for the meetings to end so that they can go home or do something healthy. I think there is sickness in that Hall, don't you?"
The brothers visibly squirmed in their seats as they acknowledged that enthusiasm at the Hall had fallen off somewhat, but that they still felt that Jehovah's spirit was there during meetings. "Really?" she asked. "Then why do all of the MS and elders look for excuses to stand outside during most of the meetings? Why is it I never see any of them actually go out and knock on doors. Even Brother (X) doesn't even bother to bring his jacket to the field service meetings. He just reads a text, says a prayer and then sends the rest of us out the door. He always has 'something to do' and never joins us in service."
After the elder explained that Brother (X) had been very busy lately and he would be "judged by Jehovah" as to the value of his level of field service, he and the other brother started to excuse themselves. The sister had prepared for this. "Before you leave, would you answer a couple of questions for me that have been bugging me? I've been reading a lot of the literature and now I seem to have more questions than answers."
I won't go into detail, but she asked them specifically to explain the "Generation" doctrine and asked them to show her Bible scriptures that supported their answers. They kept referring to their concordance and indices, but had to "wing it" most of the time.
After they limped through trying to answer that, they again started to get up to leave. She said that she still had some questions. "I want to ask about blood transfusions. Please, just show me in the Bible if you don't mind." She pointed out that most of the scriptures they quoted were from the Hebrew Scriptures. They found a couple in the Greek that supported not eating blood. They agreed and explained that most of the Law was fulfilled by Jesus' sacrifice, but not all. "OK. Then why don't we observe the Sabbath on Saturdays? And why don't we tithe? We know the early Christians did."
They had no answer for those two questions, but promised to come back soon and bring the answers with them.
As they headed for the door, she gave them a written list of about 15 questions that she said were "bothering" her. She said she would look forward to them making another "shepherding call" on her very soon, but could they come prepared with the answers to those questions?
She told me that she had never before been to any "apostate" sites, but she did a Google search and found JWFacts.com and JWN to get ideas for her questions (but she hid that fact from the brothers). She told me that she wished she had a video camera going at the time to record the looks - and often really weird responses - she got from the two brothers as they kept heading for the door. As they left, she gave them both a big hug and asked them to pray with her, which they did. As they walked out the door, she happened to mention that she would probably have another list of questions for them when they came back.
I asked her what happened when they came back? "They haven't been back. No phone calls, no visits, nothing. Not a peep. What I haven't told you was that was nearly a year ago! All I had to do was be nice to them and ask them some serious questions that they should know the answers. I think I scared them."
I asked her if she felt threatened and whether she thought she might be reproved or DF'd. "I really don't think so. Other than poor meeting attendance and no current active service, they can't punish me for asking questions right from the Watchtower literature. They don't know about my "marriage," so I don't think they would come after me for that."
Her last remark to me was that she heard from another sister that a recent Watchtower study had just 11 people, of which only 5 were actually sitting in the auditorium seats. Three of those 5 were children under 12 years old.
Her last remark to me was, "I think that very soon they will have meeting scheduled when only the elders involved will show up and no one will be in the seats. It's sad, but I know that many JWs going to that Hall would be happy if the CO just closed down the English congregation. It's a joke."
Sorry this is so long, but I really enjoyed our phone call and it could have gone on forever - she wanted to share so much with me. But I think her story illustrates a fact that we could all use to combat JWs. Use their own weaknesses to defeat them. How can they punish you for asking simple questions? This sister really believes in Jehovah - she's sincere as can be - but she believes that He has removed his spirit from her Kingdom Hall because, as she opines, "most of them are hypocrites, especially the elders, and He's decided to just let them wither away."
JV
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LoisLane looking for Superman
Thank you Juan for sharing that story.
I thought she was going to ask the Elders where in the Bible was the scripture on Blood fraction. lol
I was of the generation of no organ transplants. It was called cannibalism. Now God speaks to them and has decided, somebody didn't hear Him clearly, when He was talking to them, because organ transplants are OK now. It was just a little communication problem. I wonder how many lost their lives over that rule.
PS...Sorry, I am a bit off topic. Not meaning to disrespect anyone.
Just Lois
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Fernando
Dear Julia and George Orwell
I pray their sneakiness may increasingly help your husband see them for what thet really are - venomous serpents who steal, kill and destroy faith and spirituality. There is nothing they hate and fear more than the "full Good News" and informed believers.
(John 10:8-10) .?.?.All those that have come in place of me are thieves and plunderers; but the sheep have not listened to them.?I am the door; whoever enters through me will be saved, and he will go in and out and find pasturage. The thief does not come unless it is to steal and slay and destroy..?.?.
Please do not trust them or give them any information they can use against you. They like to do all the asking of questions. Do not endulge them in this. Instead you ask them questions they should be able to answer but cannot.
I pray that you and your husband get to leave on your terms and at a time that suits you both.
Greetings, blessings and peace
Fernando
(Why does the "true religion" secretly blind its followers to the "Good News" according to Paul, Moses, Isaiah and Psalms?) -
likeabird
It was v sneaky of them to line this meeting up with my husband on the assumption it was about his problem then go for me.
Welcome to the borg. They do that all the time. They will never tell you the real reason for a meeting beforehand and always camouflage it by something innocent sounding.
Sorry you had to go through this.