Julia's Inquisition - Two elders, the full version! I want you all to see this.

by Julia Orwell 81 Replies latest jw friends

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  WinstonSmith

  Julia,

  Thanks very much for sharing your experience, and good on you for holding your own against them. Sadly I see very little shepherding from them, rather they seem to be trying to catch you out on something. How very far from the spirit and love of Jesus.

  Instead of seeking to apply Jude 22, they are as others have said, decided to act like the evil and beating up their fellows. Shame on them for being guided by the Book of Elders and not the scriptures.

  As a former elder I must be honest and say that they will be back, one way or another, and they will hound you for clarification on what you have with a view to pinning you on something. They will most definitely report back to the body, and they will be asked "Did she clearly state that she does not believe the GB is God's channel?" They can't say for certain, so they will be asked to get clarification and confirmation. This may be by way of formal meeting, phonecall, or allegedly 'casual' conversation. Be on your toes, and as wise as a serpent.

  My advice would be avoid further meetings with them. You owe them nothing. They will take whatever power they can from you. Do whatever you can to not meet with them. Use you PTSD as a reason. Use their rules sgainst them by getting hubby to stand (physically or verbally) between you and them as the 'head of the house' and say that they are not allowed to see you. He / you don't have to give a reason. They have no right to demand one.

  They will keep at it, but if you both stick to your guns, stick to the plan, eventually you will be written off as too much hard work, and they will move on to easier prey. Commence a nice slow fade away and out of their sight.

  There is a storm coming, but it is a very survivable storm.

  Mrs Smith and I wish you and your hubby the very best.

  WS
• 

  Juan Viejo2

  Julia,

  The next time they show up at your home and press you like they did on this visit, consider just asking them if they are "trying to chase you away"?

  Be blunt about it. Point out the thousands of hours of door-to-door preaching work and the hundreds of pieces of literature that must be distributed just to get one single new convert. You are already a member and don't want to just walk away from it all even though you have some personal issues and some questions about the logic of the JW religion. But you are NOT asking to be thrown out. You aren't doing anything that would be considered a carnal sin. You are not a criminal. You are being respectful and in subjection to your husband - and to them as elders. Why don't they leave well-enough alone?

  So why on their "shepherding call" would they want to make you feel awkward and try to make you feel guilty for having a few honest questions? Do they search for converts just so they can toss out many of those already part of the congregation. Where is the logic in that? What does that say to the new converts as they watch the existing members either leave or get chased away?

  That would be the approach I would recommend. If they keep asking you about whether you accept the GB as the FDS, simply say that you don't know and that is not a big issue for you. Why are they making that an issue? Is that so important that you must accept the FDS doctrine completely without having a few personal doubts? Ask them if they don't occasionally have a twinge of doubt about something published in the Watchtower? Lots of brothers and sisters live with their doubts, but still go to meetings and engage in service. Some men may choose not to reach out for more responsibility because they know they have some doubts, but is that enough reason for them to just give up on the "Truth"?

  I swear that I hear this same story so often that it is almost like the elders have nothing better to do that to look for reasons to force the rank and file to basically swear a loyalty oath in order to stay in the congregation. That was what your baptism was all about. You shouldn't have to swear on a Bible in order to stay in as long as you want.

  Trust me on this. This has become a major issue as more and more elders feel that they must spend more of their time conducting an inquisition over their members. This is putting a lot of fear into the hearts of brothers and sisters everywhere. No one ever called the Inquisition an "act of love," and it actually weakened the Catholic Church in Europe. That is what the Watchtower is starting to do everywhere as they try to root out the apostates, real or imagined, within their midst. That, hopefully, will be their undoing.

  JV
• 

  cantleave

  Hi Julia,

  You answered honestly, but unfortunately they won't let go. They will be compelled to ascertain whether you are a "danger" to the congregation, and will probably call you to a JC, especially as one of them sounds like a real company man.
• 

  Comatose

  Hang in there! I admire your honesty very much, but I don't want to see you hurt. For me personally, a refusal to answer further questions would be in order.
• 

  DesirousOfChange

  GO: Do you believe the Governing Body are Jesus's FDS? Me: I choose not to answer that. GO: Why do you choose not to answer? Me: I do not wish to incriminate myself.

  Answers like "I do not know" and "I choose not to answer that" and "I do not wish to incriminate myself" are pretty incriminating. I don't know if they will accept that "5th Amendment Defense" (US Constitutional reference to self-incrimiation).

  I could even see admitting that you have the Elders' Book being used against you, as disregarding the direction of the GB/F&DS on who is authorized to have it/read it.

  *** Jude vs 8 ***
  ". . . and disregarding lordship and speaking abusively of glorious ones."

  I too suspect they will be back, and perhaps to invite you to a JC where your attitude (above) will not be deemed as "repentant" or "cooperative". I sincerely hope it does not go that way, but I do not think you have CYA nearly as much as you seem to think or that others suggest by their supportive "Atta-boys".

  Remember it only takes the opinion of 3 men (Elders) to decide your fate and make a decision. This is not a court of law. This is a kangaroo court of (their) opinion. Sure you can appeal a DF decision -- to 3 more Elders who will be working to support the good-ole-boy network, esp if Elder Preppy is a Grad of the Special School or an appointment of the Branch. (They will all just bow to him and rubber stamp his decision for fear that they will never get an Assm assignment.)

  You do not have to be teaching or spreading your "apostate ideas" to be guilty. You only have to BELIEVE contrary to the teachings of the GB/F&DS. Thinking differently from them is a DFing offense. (I'm searching for their quote on that.)

  You can have your doubts. But you cannot express them.

  Good luck,

  Doc
• 

  breakfast of champions

  Just read your account - sorry this happened!

  Its all really soooooo stupid too: the ONLY reason these guys have any "power" is because some corporate entity in NY told them so. That's it. No god, no Jesus or any other universal agency has their back.

  Best of luck,

  BOC
• 

  TheListener

  Good luck Julia Orwell. You met them face to face and held your own. What they do from this point forward is on their heads.
• 

  hoser

  throw a question back at them Julia. When they ask do you believe the FDS? ask them do they believe it and why? get them to explain it to you. bet they can't
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  Chaserious

  Very courageous of you, Julia. It's interesting how they ALWAYS trot out the "Do you believe the Governing Body is the FDS?" in every congregation around the earth when there is a hint of independent thinking, and relentlessly pursue it a hundred different ways to try to get an answer. Very inquisitorial, with no basis in scripture for that kind of questioning.

  Way to show them you're no fool, either. It reminds my of when I got DF'd, we had a long exchange that was very similar to yours, except instead of a university or the bank, the elder used the example of the army. It was a better example, to be honest, and a little harder to argue that disagreement was permitted. I told him changes are made in the army because people persist in disagreeing about something unfair, like allowing women into the army, or allowing homosexuals. Also once you leave the army you can still be friends with those who are still in. Anyway, great job on your part, and best of luck going ahead, since surely they won't leave you alone.

  If I had it to do over again, I would not meet with a judicial committee and acknowledge their authority. Although I suspect that with the elders as two witnesses to what you said, they might DF you anyway. I think attending the JC did help win my wife over, since she saw that I was just being sincere and honest and they DF'd me anyway. So consider how to expose them to your husband also when you decide how to proceed. Think about demanding that he sit in on the judicial committee if you decide to attend one.
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  wannabefree

  You are courageous. Sorry for what you are going through.

  My impression was that they are attempting to get you to DA yourself, it will take care of the matter for them in a neat and quick way.

  Where was the spritual help, the refreshment to you who has been down?

  It all comes down to their rules and the obeisance demanded for their Governing Body.

  *** w02 11/15 p. 25 "Shepherd the Flock of God" ***
  Elders today likewise strive to be a source of refreshment and protection to the flock. Such men "prove to be like a hiding place from the wind and a place of concealment from the rainstorm, like streams of water in a waterless country, like the shadow of a heavy crag in an exhausted land." (Isaiah 32:2) Such kind protectors bring refreshment, earn the respect of the flock, and gain God's approval.-Philippians 2:29; 1 Timothy 5:17.