To Refiners Fire:
: The whole point of this thread was to see how many people were under the impression that the WT claimed that the GB talked with God themselves.
I see. Well, along the lines of what I posted earlier, the answer depends on what you mean by the GB talking with God. They certainly claim that God talks to them in unspecified but clearly supernatural ways. They certainly claim that they talk to God via prayer and that God answers those prayers. If this isn't two-way communication, I don't know what is. Oviously it's not the same as having, say, a face to face conversation with God, but that's not very helpful. You and I communicate indirectly through this board, even though we don't communicate face to face. You write, I respond, and vice versa. It's the same with the GB: God writes in the Bible, the GB supposedly prays, God responds by putting ideas in their heads or whatever. That's talking with God just as much as you and I are talking right now.
Of course, a major difference between the GB talking with God and me talking with you is that in the latter case we know that anyone can do it, whereas the GB claims that God does not answer the prayers or put ideas in the heads of any other religious leaders. Thus the GB claim exclusive communication in this way with God, and that is why they have long claimed to be God's sole channel of communication to mankind.
: This doesnt happen (so far as I know) they have never claimed this, but they insinuate God puts ideas into their minds and they recieve their direction thru a channel of spirit that is two or three steps removed from God.
Exactly. However, remember that the Society teaches that God has only directly communicated with two men throughout history: Adam and Jesus. All other communication has been through angels ranging in rank from simple messengers to Jesus in angelic form. For example, they say that the Revelation was given by God to Jesus to an angel to John. That's exactly what Rutherford claimed happened when angels put ideas into his own head. So the notion of direct communication with God without any supernatural intermediaries is meaningless here. The real point is that the Society teaches that various supernatural agents representing God communicate directly with JW leaders by putting ideas in their heads.
: i have to tell you that, frankly I have moved away from Watchtower predictions and am looking at other churches and their predictions, looking for similarities in method.
Plenty of other false prognosticators are around. In most cases they don't claim to speak for God, and so, while I deplore their idiotic predictions, I don't class them as being Biblical "false prophets" as I do JW leaders and a few other nutcases. Those who step over the line and claim to speak for God, such as David Koresh, are most certainly Biblical "false prophets".
: So WT quotes are not at my fingertips.
Fear not! I have many.
: However,Here is an example of what I mean,uttered by a Christian fundie called Norman Robertson.
: He says:
: "recognize that we in this generation have a distinct advantage over all previous generations because the seal of Daniel 12 verse 4 has been opened to us and so we can understand End Time Prophecy" He then goes on to mouth his own personal interpretations of scripture.
: Is he a false prophet because he quotes the Authority of Daniel and because he implies that the seal has been opened by God?
: Or is more needed to convict him?
It depends on precisely how he claims this "opening of the seal" has occurred and how he treats those who disagree with him. If he claims that he and his buddies have been given special dispensation via some sort of divine guidance, whether specified or not, then he fits the definition of Biblical false prophet. If he treats those who disagree with him as if they're disagreeing with God himself, then he also fits the definition.
A lot of preachers make a lot of false predictions and wild interpretations of the Bible, but they're not necessarily Biblical "false prophets". To be such, they must claim that their words are the equivalent of God's, directly or indirectly.
I highly recommend that you read the links I posted earlier in this thread. You'll find more damning quotations than you've ever dreamed of.
AlanF
