Fictious "Universal Sovereignty" Issue Proposed By Watchtower Corporation Is Idiotic

by frankiespeakin 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  frankiespeakin

  Ok so a big part of the WT corporation ideological structure is the invention of the issue before all creation being "Universal Sovereignty".

  The story goes like this very basically:

  For untold years Jehovah's soverneignty was never challenged, then after so many millions of years Jehovahs started his earthly creation with Adam&Eve being the culmination of that work. Soon afterwards Satan seduces Eve to disobey Jehovah and thus we have the very first act of disobedience Satan slanders God by telling Eve God is selfish as to the reason he forbids eating this other wise nice looking fruit Adam joins his wife in the rebellion.

  God in his infinite wisdom allows this rebellion because this was a challenge to his sovereingty and so he is allowing a reasonable amount of time to let mankind and angels see for themselves that his rulership is better that Satan's.

  So basically it is like a bet he has with Satan or who's rulership is best, and he's allowing time to prove his is far superior.

  Well if you look at it logically it don't add up.

  1. If God is going to allow Satan to prove his point about who's rulership is better why is he alway interfereing and interveining that's unfair.

  2. God goes on killing sprees of people man women and chilldren (not very smart for some trying to prove his rulership is better for people to follow.

  3. God show himself to be jealous (not a good trait for a ruler to endear himself to people).

  4. God's scare people to except his ruler ship.

  and I have even more reason to show the whole idea is a made up sham.
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  Tater-T

  we just covered this... http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/246634/1/A-conversation-about-universal-sovereignty

  but go on ...I love this one
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  prologos

  The Universal sovereingnty idea is a wt invention to baffle everybody.

  The hidden creator rules by laws that if respected work quite well.

  This way of doing things is never successfully challenged.

  how does the flawed story of the snake fruit snack affect gods mighty rule?

  perhaps in a grandiose way WT BtS sees itsef as an expression of that elusive Universal Sovereignty?

  extra territorial rights for Brooklyn, Patkill?
• 

  zeb

  The wts is the only org I have ever heard use the term 'Universal soveignty' perhaps because the rest of the world have not heard it.?
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  2+2=5

  One thing that I have thought, ever since I was very young, about this universal sovereignty is.... after the 1000yrs of peace, Satan is let loose...... He succeeds in turning some away from Jehovah, so..... the issue of universal sovereignty is still not finished..... Satan could say people still choose his way..... the case will never close.

  And if Jehovah's Witnesses are the one true religion, the issue of universal sovereignty is clearly being won by Satan..... I mean, the jury is still out, but it is not looking god for Jehovah..... people seem to be in favour of false religion.
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  Bobcat

  Frank:

  I certainly don't want to start a heated discussion. And I respect that this is your view, and that of many others. But if I could comment on how the discussion on this subject usually flows and a brief point about my view (always subject to revision!):

  Most times, on this subject, what I see is arguments against how God has supposedly handled the rebellion. In other words, his response to the rebellion has been mismanaged, or something like that.

  There are other side issues such as the Garden of Eden account, which some accept, others don't. But for the sake of argument, whether the account is real or just allegorical, it does portray a rebellion against what God ordered. And it seems to portray it as a beginning of a continued rebellion as the pages of the Bible progress.

  On a human level, in my experience, governments often go fiercely against those who challenge their rule. For example, when police or other govt. officials are targeted, the reaction of the authorities is usually much more pronounced than when a private citizen is targeted.

  The point I'm getting at is, if God is ruler of the universe, then, a rebellion against his rule would logically be a challenge to his "universal sovereignty." Whether it was possible for anyone to successfully challenge his sovereignty, or whether God's response to the challenge was fair-handed, would be beside the point - in my view anyways. It wouldn't change the fact that someone or some group had challenged his 'universal sovereignty' or 'universal rulership.' Even if the challenge had some merits, it would still be a challenge to the, up to then, accepted rulership. Based on human ruling experience since then, it would seem expected that the ruler who was challenged would respond in some way.

  Incidentally, another side issue that I see is tying the idea of "universal sovereignty" to the Society's explanation of it. Their explanation of how it has progressed and been handled by God may have huge holes in it, but that would'nt - again, in my view, change the fact that God's universal rulership had some rivals to it. And if he liked things the way they were before the rebellion, it would require some sort of response on his part.

  Take Care
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  prologos

  IF some kids in a village in Bacteria* trashed a magazine with a picture of the American flag, would that challenge the Sovereignty of the US? require nuking the whole place?, but first spraying the territory with agent orange to render the population helpless?

  since the basis (the talking snake) of the Uni Sov story is made up, is ridicoulous,

  The whole thing and its ramifications are made up.

  should be nominated for an Oskar for best fiction. or comedy.

  *from Charly Chaplins parody of Hitler, We should have a remake of "Lese Majesty" on a grand, Universal scale. Universal Studio are you listening? Photo Drama of the Un Sov?
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  jeremiah18:5-10

  If the issue of universal sovereignty is real, Satan's rule versus God's rule, and we all have to choose, there is a big advantage for Satan.

  As imperfect humans, we are pre-disposed to sin. To say we have a choice or anywhere close to the same choice as perfect beings is ludicrous.

  Your inclination is to sin (rebel). How can that be a fair opportunity? The sin is held against you, its not overlooked. You are then faced with the choice of keep sinning and die or submit to God and he will forgive you and heal you. Again is sin a choice? Are you choosing to be imperfect? Emphatically the answer is no.

  There isn't any logical or fair way to settle such an issue, its not a level playing field. To gamble with the lives of living thinking feeling beings is disgusting. How could such an act endear either to a person. The picture paints us as nothing but pawns or poker chips in a celestial poker game in which one (God) can change the rules as often and in whatever way he wishes.

  I can't buy in to the universal sovereignty issue as being legit.
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  frankiespeakin

  When we examine the WT explanation for why God has permitted wickedness the issue of Universal Soverneignty is trotted out as being the reason. The premiss is that Jehovah in his infinite wisdom and love decided to let the rebels back in the Garden of Eden after listening to Satan talking thru a Snake in a tree to go there way and rule themselve to see if some other form of rulership is better.

  The picture the WT draws of Jehovah in this issue is one of patients and benevolence.

  And yet we see Jehovah killing people left and right over all kinds of trivia like, picking up sticks on a saturday, Useing his name in vain, giving worship to other Gods, wipeing out almost all animal life durring the flood killing innocent babies, Killing 70,000 innocent people over the indisgression of a king appointed by him, distroying whole cities because they worshipped other Gods, making laws that men wearing women grabs should be put to death, incorrect handleing of Idol like ark of the covenant, killing people for murmering in the wilderness because they are hungry for meat, and the list can go on and on for all the killing Jehovah has done as recorded in the Bible.

  This does not fit the discription of a pateint benevolent Creator allowing time to prove the issue of who's rulership is superior and should rightfully be obeyed. Instead this paints a picture of a tyrant that is petty, jealous, and has real anger management issue that causes untold suffering and death for many innocent people.

  So from the bible depictions of Jehovah one can not logically conclude that he is patiently waiting for the issue to be settled in his favor in which he is allowing people to decide for themselves. Instead we see a highly egotistical Jehovah killing people who disobey him on trivial issues.

  So if he is allowing Satan to rule to show his own rulership as superior he is doing a lousy job because he is so hot headed and angry at silly shit.

  Cearly their is no issue of Universal sovereignty as the WT discibes it.
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  frankiespeakin

  If Jehovah is allowing time to prove his rulership superior, why do we find Jehovah making a terrible record for himself in the bible which shows his rulership so inferior to human rulership we have today? Did he give up and decided to do a forfeiture on the Issue?

  As far as a game player Jehovah seems to be a real failure. Or this Universal Sovereignty issue is just a pipe dream cooked up by an authoritarian Corporation to keep people sedated and under their control.

  This I'm afraid shows the Wt coropration to be run by a bunch of short sighted Black and White Thinkers who are just too simplistic in their world view to make sense logically. The delusion they are in don't allow for clear thinking instead it is heavily biased towards a fearful Mythological Diety giving Him every benifit of doubt and ascribing to him absolutes in goodness and wisdom by ignoring his dark side.