How Can One Understand Prophecy Today?

by MDS 42 Replies latest watchtower bible

MDS

Larc,
You said to "bjc" above:
...You asked if I was looking for information that I would like to know. No, I'm not.
Exactly as I said all along, my reason all along on why I didn't answer you. I've said all, along...all along, that YOU ARE NOT SINCERE! And that last comment proves it!
Out of your own mouth, you are shown to be wicked... your purposes lacking in honor.
2 Timothy 2:20, 21 says of such ones:
"Now in a large house there are vessels not only of gold and silver but also of wood and earthenware, and some for an honorable purpose but others for a purpose LACKING HONOR. If therefore, anyone KEEPS CLEAR OF THE LATTER ONES, he will be a vessel for an honorable purpose, sanctified, useful to his owner, prepared for every good work."
We must then, stay "clear" of such like "vessels," "vessels" such as you, dishonorable "vessels" right WITHIN God's House, among the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses, as Paul said, to truly be "useful" to Jesus, the "owner," of the Christian Congregation.
Your mouth spoke and gave you away...to us.
Jesus aptly prophesied about you people, "Israel,"
"Offspring of vipers, how can you speak good things, when you are wicked? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The good man out of his good treasure send out good things, whereas the wicked man out of his wicked treasure sends out wicked things. I tell you that every unprofitable saying that men speak, they will render an account concerning it on Judgment Day; for by your words you will be declared righteous, and by your words you will be condemned." -- See Matthew 12:34-37
It just came out, didn't it.
And now, you wonder why, why, why, why, .... I don't answer your questions...Whew!
MDS
"...Jehovah, who has put faith in the THING HEARD (the "REPORT") by us?[/i] -- Isaiah 53:1; John 12:38 NWT Ref. Bi fnt
Edited by - MDS on 2 February 2001 23:44:54
Frenchy

jr, bjc
I view myself as being an objective man. I have no program or quest and consequently I am not in competition with MDS. I don't know the man personally so I have no malice toward him. What you said about having the proper attitude has a lot of merit. There is a line, however, between faith and credulity, between humility and gullibility. One is a proper quality to develop the other bespeaks of immaturity, emotional and/or spiritual.
I am one of those people who wants to believe. I debate my positions on this board (and some that have no JW's on them whatsoever) because I believe that if something is true that it will withstand scrutiny. I believe that the ONLY test of truth is scrutiny. I don't believe something because I would like it to be so or because someone else does so. Thus my signature...been there, done that.
I would like it to be so that today there was an agency, a group, a person, yes, an organization which was duly authorized and empowered by God to lead mankind to salvation. I would be ticked to death to KNOW that there exists such a thing. Want to be shocked? If it were to be revealed to me (by divine means or by my own devices) that this agency was the WTS then I would be ecstatic. I would go back and do my very best to do all that I could. If I were to come to KNOW that MDS was that agent I would follow him down to the end and do so while thanking God every day for my discovery.
All I ask is to be convinced. Asking difficult questions is what gets you in trouble with the WTS. They don't mind you asking questions with the attitude of "Oh, please, kind sirs, please tell me where it is that I am unable to follow your all wise and brilliant counsel. Please show me where logic fails and your wisdom prevails and kindly forgive my ignorance." Ditto for MDS. It's the same malarky all over again. Ask in humility and don't question.
Anyone who positions himself to where he cannot be questioned and all his statements must be accepted as truth will appear wise to those who sumit to this insane set of rules.
MDS must first demonstrate that he is authorized and commissioned by God before I will follow him. He must present credentials beyond his rantings here on this board.
Talk is cheap and he gets his wholesale.
-Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
larc

mds,
Well, that was quite a rant against me. You said that I was insincere, I lacked honor, that people should stay clear of me, that I was dishonorable, was wicked and an offspring of vipers. I wanted to summarize, just in case any readers missed anything. I guess you saying it makes it true. Sure convinced me what a nogoodnick I really am. Oh, I forgot two. Being wicked I will send out wicked things and will be condemned. I think I captured the spirit of your message. How, loving and Christlike.
My quote about not looking for info: you said "It just slipped out, didn't it?" Boy, your steel trapped mind caught me again. Fact is, I am not here to promote my beliefs, never have, never will. However, it you want to promote yours, I think I have a right as a thinking person to ask legitamate questions that logicaly flow from your conclusions. You know, there are over 500 hundred people who are registered to post here, and probably hundreds of others who stop by to read. What a wonderful opportuity for you to answer some questions from a low life like me and prove victorious. It would certainly help your cause.
I believe the reason you won't answer is because you can't. As a self proclaimed prophet, it is much better for you to keep pronouncements shrouded in mystery and ambiguity. The more ambiguous the "prophesy" the more any events can be used, after the fact, to prove the correctness of the original proclaimation.
Rutherford stated that the scripture about many "running to and fro" predicted modern train transportation. I think it predicted the running up and down the court in modern basketball. That makes as much sense to me. Neither one can be proved or disproved, and both look just as foolish to the rational (not evil) people who disblieve it.
Your thoughtful, loving, and sincere comments will be appreciated.
trevor

Hi Larc and Frenchy,
I have already gone on record to sat that I am blown away by the arrogance of MDS. He is really not worth talking to. Unless someone has an open mind they are unreceptive to truth or even the pursuit of it. I offer the following little quote as awarning to the many hundreds of people you referred to above. Its not the eyes of MDS I fear he has lost his paddle.
trevor
"Belief can never lead to reality. Belief is the result of conditioning, or the outcome of fear, of the result of an outer of inner authority, which gives comfort. Reality is none of these… the credulous are always willing to believe, accept obey, whether what is offered is good or bad, mischievous or beneficial. The believing mind is not an enquiring mind, so it remains within the limits of the formula or the principle."
Krishnamurti
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bjc2012

Frenchy,
You have expressed my exact sentiments. I knew that truth was in the bible, but the WTS was not dispensing it. I have always believed that truth would stand up to any questioning and when the WTS refused to be questioned, then I reasoned that they must be deficient in their understanding to take a stance like this. Hence the statement "Wait on Jehovah, He will reveal it in his own time." And I do remember study articles where I said after we considered them "they don't know what they are talking about." So, no I was not going to be caught up in something like that again. My goal then became finding a logical explanation of all of the prophesies in the bible.
No, I could not see letting personalities come between me and understanding the bible. Personalities be damned, I wanted answers and I have questioned MDS for 10 years about explanations he has given. I have read the bible through each year to make sure that no one was pulling the wool over my eyes. I felt that I needed to know what was in the bible in order to be able to ask intelligent questions. I have found things that I didn't believe fit with some of his explanations and told him so. Some things he could not explain at the time I presented it to him. But he would later show me other scriptures that I had not considered that helped clear the matter up. He's done this over and over and frankly I am still asking for explanations. I am continually overwhelmed at the amount of information in the bible that I don't understand even after ten years of study. I simply have not found MDS to be deficient. I can actually see the scripture at Isaiah 52: 13-15 being fulfilled; which says, particularly in verse 15; "....At him kings will shut their mouth, because what had not been recounted to them they will actually see, and to what they had not heard they must turn their consideration." I would like to emphasize 'what they had not heard' because I have heard a lot of things that were totally new to me.
Earlier when we started these discussions, I have to say that I felt as many of you do, why him? What does he have that anyone else didn't have so that Jehovah would give him this kind of knowledge. My answer had to be, what did it matter, all I knew was that Jehovah was not giving it to me directly and if I wanted to understand his word I would have to get it from whomever Jehovah was giving it to.
I often think of the words spoken about Jesus at Matthew 7:28,29, which reads: "Now when Jesus finished these sayings, the effect was that the crowds were astounded at his way of teaching' for he was teaching them as a person having authority, and not as their scribes." This is what I hear when I listen to MDS, a person speaking with authority. As with those Israelites, I have found no one who can refute his explanations. And I do read what others say. If there is any one out there who can give a more reasonable and logical explanation, I will give him a hearing ear. I am after truth and nothing else will do. I believe I have a basic enough understanding of the bible to be able to recognize whether someone knows what he is talking about. I have heard enough people here on this board say that MDS does not understand the bible but I have yet to see them prove it scripturally. MDS has taken ten years to hone his teachings. Has anyone else worked this hard to "find the very knowledge of God?" (Proverbs 2:5) If so, then let's hear it, but until then.....
Frenchy, everyone has to make up his own mind based on his love for Jehovah and faith in his word. I don't know if anyone can convince you with mere words that a particular person is being used by Jehovah. It may be as Jesus said: "No one comes to me unless the Father draws him." Sometimes you can fight so hard against something and that thing may be just what you're looking for. It just has not been presented in the package that you think it should have been. That's how the Jews missed out on identifying Jesus. In fact, Isaiah says something similar at Isaiah 53:2: "And he will come up like a twig before one, and like a root out of waterless land. No stately form does he have, not any splendor; and when we shall see him, there is not the appearance so that we should desire him." I believe this is saying that we are not going to like what we see.
Anyway, I hope you will continue to give this prayful consideration as you are doing.
bjc
MDS

To: Frenchy & Larc:
Here is where you two have gone wrong, where you've gone completely wrong, from a scriptural point of view.
Listen and learn.
"So when he went out from there the Scribes and the Pharisees started in to press upon him terribly and to PLY HIM WITH QUESTIONS about further things, lying in wait for him, to catch something out of his mouth." -- Luke 11:53, 54
"...ply him with questions...ply him with questions... sound familiar?
"...to catch something out of his mouth...to catch something..."
Now, is this "wicked" or what, I ask?
So, why should I respond to you, for any reason. That's for any reason. When I know you are up to NO GOOD!
The Bible says THIS IS WRONG!
You brothers are wrong, no "ifs" and "buts" about it.
(Now, you "brothers," actually, should be apologizing to me...really. But I don't think that will happen no time soon., if you know what I mean. )
Are you "brothers," servants of Jehovah, are you above the Bible? The counsel of the Holy Scriptures...the Word of God ... The both of you...are you that lofty and high?
We know the answer to that question...don't we.
You men are acting exactly, thats exactly like the wicked Pharisees ... "plying" Jesus with foolish "questions" ... "pressing terribly upon him..."
That's you two, Frenchy and Larc.
With totally Idiotic questions!
Further scriptures to consider:
"And, after observing him closely they sent out men secretly hired to PRETEND THAT THEY WERE RIGHTEOUS, in order that they might CATCH HIM IN SPEECH ... " -- Luke 20:20
Yes, the "PRETENDED to be righteous." PRETENDED.
So as to ... "catch him in speech..."
Are you two "pretending to be righteous?" Pretending...
More wickedness.
Another Scriptural example:
"Next they sent forth to him some of the Pharisees and of the party followers of Herod, to CATCH HIM IN HIS SPEECH." -- Mark 12:13
Still More Wickedness.
Exactly, what "Frenchy," and "Larc" are trying to do here on this board.
Now, what did Jesus do, when approached in such a vile, wicked "spirit," or manner?
He "insulted" them. Why, yes...he "insulted", denounced them, publicly. Here is an example of the way Jesus handled the situation.
In Luke 11: 45, 46 the Bible relates this unique situation Christ encountered and how he handled it. It states:
"In answer a certain one of those versed in the Law said to him: Teacher, in saying these things YOU ALSO INSULT US."
Yes, "Insulted" them.
Now, was Jesus going to apologize...no! And say, "No, I really didn't mean to insult you people" or something like that?
Well, no but the next verse tells us that Jesus said:
"Then he said to them: 'Woe also you who are versed in the Law, because you load men with loads hard to be borne, but you yourselves do not touch the loads with one of your fingers!' "
Yes, further DENOUNCED these wicked men. No, Jesus didn't apologize to these wicked men, with their wicked "plying questions."
No, he didn't, and neither will I...they deserve it.
MDS
"...Jehovah, who has put faith in the THING HEARD (the "REPORT") by us?[/i] -- Isaiah 53:1; John 12:38 NWT Ref. Bi fnt
Edited by - MDS on 3 February 2001 14:12:40
mommy

Mds,
I really enjoyed what Frenchy wrote to you. And I told you in the chatroom I too would look into your preaching. I did, and am not convinced that Hosea 11:1 is a prophecy. So if I don't believe in this one belief of yours then you can't convince me of others.
So the question at the top of this forum. How can one understand prophecy today.....You can't. Both of us looked at the same scripture and both of us has a different opinion on it. Who is right? Who has the answer? Maybe I am right, maybe you are. But what it boils down to is neither of us will know until God decides to let us know.
It is really hard to be patient for things, I am the world's worst at waiting. But I personally would not stake my life on something I don't feel 100% about. I admire that you feel so strongly about your beliefs. I just have faith in my heart that God will answer all of our prayers. To sit on this earth spending our time here arguing about interpratations of the bible is really a waste of time, imo.
It is funny because a friend of mine asked what I thought about your beliefs, he knows I have read them and looked up the coresponding scriptures. You know what I told him? It does sound good, and some parts do coincide. BUT I could take those same scriptures and "make" my own opinions of them and sell them too. And it would sound VERY good.(coming from me that is:))
PS I don't want to give you any hints or anything but when you are "shown up" on another thread, You really shouldn't start a new one. It just looks like you are running.
wendy
MDS

Hi Wendy,
Did you see what I posted on the Main Forum...the info about "scapegoat?"
Did you see that?
Disprove that, and you will have proven your case?
Its that simple.
Or, are you afraid that you cannot respond to that sequence of scriptures...are you afraid that others will see this post and it will indeed "make sense" to them.
You can say, you've discredited me, all you want, but Bible passage of Isaiah 49:1-6 simply doesn't go away, because you and your simpleton "friends," want it to.
Lets's consider something you said, ... You said, I MIGHT (that's might) BE RIGHT, about Hosea 11:1. You say, it is possible...
...well if that is so....
....where does that put you scoffers, you scorners of my message? My "Report", the "thing heard" ... if the message does come from God...where does that leave you and your "friends"? -- John 12:38; Isa. 53:1
Where?
In good standing with God? No. Or, maybe as his "enemies."
Listen, to Acts 13:40, 41:
"Therefore see to it that what is SAID IN THE PROPHETS does not come upon you, Behold it, you scorners, and wonder at it, and vanish away, because I am working a work in your days, a work that you will by no means BELIEVE even if anyone relates it to you in detail."
And, I am "relating it to you in detail," and yet, very few, if any, are "listening," or "believing." So, the scripture has predicted your reaction to the "Report,"...you are not going to BELIEVE, or have FAITH in it, no matter what I say or do.
That's what the Bible says, Wendy.
And this is what you, and every single Jehovah's Witnesses, present or ex-, 6 million strong, needs to be concerned about. The above verses.
Now, questions, most of them, the questions of your friends are BACKED BY A BAD MOTIVE. Thus, I refuse to respond.
But, anybody, with any spiritual insight or spiritual intelligence at all, that has read what you people have put on as "questions," so-called deep questions, and read my posts, will see, and will know that WHAT I WRITE, is completely, and totally SUPERIOR to anything you, the entire bunch of you could contrive or conjure up. The entire lot of you. A Ring of Simpletons!
You are trying to "bait" me, to answer your "friends" stupid questions...it will not work. I disdain stupidity. That's part of the reason I've made the progress I've made, because I DON'T WASTE TIME ON STUPIDITY.
Proverbs 9:7 says:
"He that is correcting the ridiculer is taking to himself dishonor, and he that is giving a reproof to someone wicked -- a defect in him."
If I answered your stupid questions, then, the "defect" would be in me, and I would be "taking on dishonor," to myself. And this would be displeasing to Jehovah God, who has enlightened with true understanding and knowledge. Why should I waste time with the "ridiculers", with the "wicked," why?
I will not lower myself to such a state as this.
MDS
"...Jehovah, who has put faith in the THING HEARD (the "REPORT") by us?[/i] -- Isaiah 53:1; John 12:38 NWT Ref. Bi fnt
Edited by - MDS on 3 February 2001 13:44:57
mommy

Alright MDS you asked for it! The gloves are OFF!
I am NOT stupid! My friends are NOT stupid! You on the other hand look like a RAVING IDIOT!!! I have said before....I could read into the bible the same as you, and proclaim myself same as you! I could stand at the corner screaming the same as you! I could make myself a total outcast, then claim I am speaking the truth, because I am ridiculed, same as you. But I value my life, and have enough LOVE and RESPECT for our Father not to PROCLAIM something that is false!
You sir need serious HELP, preferably a little padded cell! I have worked in mental hospitals before, and met MANY like you! I even met another "scapegoat" He later killed himself by hanging!
So this message you are screaming out at us is not new to me. I have seen it before! I have seen the tricks you are pulling.
Isaih 49:1-6....We are ALL created in the womb, and God KNOWS us ALL, We ALL have a purpose on this earth. Only the ones claiming that God has spoken to him end up dieng sooner than the others.
Your opinions are different than ours. You use the words in the bible to put yourself up above us all. What does the bible say about this? Beware that you don't fall.
I will never claim I have the RIGHT way, and will not take the responsibility of others lives in my hand. YOU on the other hand seem to think we give a S%^& about your message. Untrue! I give a s%^& about those following you and for your life as well.
I for one no longer care to debate with you. I don't have the heart to be involved with your unrighteousness! But I will tell you one thing. You can live, breath, eat a subject every day of your life. BUT that doesn't make it true, no matter how hard you want it to be. But the mind is a funny thing, it can make us think it is right. I feel this has happened to you.
I have looked at your work, reviewed it with the scriptures, I don't believe it! HOSEA was NOT prophecying about Isreal in Hosea 11:1 because the Isrealites were ALREADY out of Egypt. He was retelling a story!IMO. Yours is different.Therefore why should I listen to the rest of your bullcrap?
You are not welcome to scream your views at us, calling us names, because we don't buy your "report"! Me and my friends don't take kindly to insults, or stupidity. I find it funny there is more of us on this db that find your ravings HYSTERICAL! You are Shouting a message that is ONLY your interpratation of the BIBLE! We have heard it, so move on! If you find the need to evangalize, do it somewhere else! Stay here if you want to DISCUSS anything!
One last thing MDS....my simpleton mind continues to pray for you and your followers.
NOT SO STUPID wendy
mommy

I will not lower myself to such a state as this

If that is what you want to call it, lowering yourself. Well bud we had to go down there to talk to YOU!
I for one will go back up to the surface and enjoy life for awhile.

How Can One Understand Prophecy Today?

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