The 144,000 must all be selected FIRST!

by Yadirf 31 Replies latest jw friends

  • Yadirf
    Yadirf

    The 144,000 must all be selected first!

    In another thread, entitled “The Ransom paid,” its author raised a most important question -- a question that surely every person ought to be determined to know the answer to. I’m posting this also as a reply in that thread, but I feel that its such an important issue that the answer (as I see it) be given the widest publicity possible here on this forum. Hence a thread of its own, with its own title. But by no means is it my purpose to steal the attention away from Cornish’s topic, which can be visited by clicking here >>>http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=24759&site=3

    Now here’s the question that was posed, abbreviated:

    OK, so the ransom is paid, it was paid nearly 2000 years ago so why is none of mankind seeing any physical benefits now....so if something is paid for why does mankind including those who believe keep suffering as though it has not been, why does it have to wait for some future date, why is suffering prolonged when the scales are already level?
    Are hostages still held captive even though the price has been paid?
    For any who are truly seeking an answer to that question I would attempt to explain it this way:

    Jesus’ 1000-year-long-kingdom is what will restore mankind to a perfect state of physical and spiritual health. However, Jesus’ kingdom will consist of 144,000 co-rulers, SOME OF WHICH HAVE YET TO BE SELECTED. Not until the last one of these have qualified, in order to be chosen, can the 1000-year reign of Christ commence. Revelation 7:1-3 shows that God will not proceed with Armageddon (the cleansing of the earth in preparation for Christ’s kingdom) until every last one of those who are to rule with Jesus have been chosen.

    So, yes, the Ransom has been paid -- 2000 years ago -- and so THAT part of God’s plan has been realized. But His plan still awaits complete fulfillment, and the choosing of the last ones of the 144,000 is of major importance. That sort of Christian/individual, of course, is not so easy to come by. Why so? Because they must meet the strict requirement of being truly “holy”. Such people are quite rare. The only ones that can wear that title are those who are so very dedicated to God’s cause that they won’t even need the help of Christ’s kingdom to become holy. They will have achieved that standing during their life now. They, by reason of their holiness, will have already qualified for LIFE during their present lifetime. (John 5:24; 1 John 3:14) Yes this is the reason the scriptures say that they have “passed over from death to life”. True most of these will have died and been buried, but at THEIR resurrection they will be given LIFE, meaning that they will die no more -- because they will have already qualified for the prize simply by reason of their HOLINESS.

    In contrast with them, the rest of mankind, including the “great crowd,” will require the assistance which Jesus’ kingdom will provide in order for them to finally attain the same holiness. And THAT’S what Jesus’ kingdom is all about, of course -- to bring mankind (as well as the angelic realm) back into a state of purity -- the very way it was before Satan tarnished both realms. With everything having been cleansed -- yes when THAT has been accomplished -- it can be said that there is a New Heavens and a New Earth. -- Isaiah 65:17 and 66:22; 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1.

    When that day arrives it will be exactly as it was in the beginning -- when (because of their initial purity) Adam & Eve enjoyed direct contact with God. Would you (anyone looking in on this forum) like to actually hear God’s voice, even as Adam did? You surely will be able to if you so wish. But a person has to make sure though that at the 1000-years-end s/he doesn’t REPEAT what Adam & Eve did, because at that time Satan will be loosed from bondage in order to test the integrity of all who live. Pass THAT test, and you will be considered truly “holy”. Pass THAT test and you will never EVER have to face death again; the only requirement being that you forever thereafter REMAIN “holy”. So to be “holy” is the prerequisite for entering God’s Kingdom -- not to be confused with the reign of Jesus. God’s Kingdom is forever, whereas Jesus will have ruled for only a mere millennium. To live under God’s Kingdom is to NEVER die! To never die opens up endless opportunities, the means to enjoy and explore the vastness of God’s stupendously large universe. With LIFE a person can do anything, and without being pressed for time. Without it you can’t. You want to inherit everlasting life? You definitely can! It can be done, even as Adam and Eve could’ve done it. And not the least of blessings will be to actually hear God’s voice.

    ++++++++++++++++++++

    Not really so complicated, is it? At least I don’t think so.

    Sermon over!

    Yadirf

    Daniel 11:35 ... a KEY prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.

  • Francois
    Francois

    Intellectual pap. Spiritual pablum. A fantastic fairy tale for spiritual children. A doily for the mind.

    Francois

  • Undecided
    Undecided

    HI Yadirf,

    Why do you think the 144,000 number is a literal number? If that is a literal number then why isn't the tribes that they come from literal too? If only 72 a year from Christ time to now was needed to make 144,000, why are there 8000 still alive according to the WT? If women are in that group of the faithful and discrete slave, why
    haven't any ever been on the GB? Do they have less of God's holy spirit than men? My grandma was of this group and she was better at playing checkers than any other activity that I can remember.

    When all the chosen ones have died and the end hasn't come, what will be your answer then?

    Ken P.

  • Yadirf
    Yadirf

    Still Undecided

    Why do you think the 144,000 number is a literal number? If that is a literal number then why isn't the tribes that they come from literal too?
    I responded to that very question/challenge once before, not very long ago it seems. As a matter of fact I think it may have been directed at you. You never answered.

    If women are in that group of the faithful and discrete slave, why haven't any ever been on the GB?
    I personally don't think that any women were ever chosen. Only males will be priests and kings with Jesus, even as the priests of Israel were always men.

    My grandma was of this group and she was better at playing checkers than any other activity that I can remember.
    I understand.

    When all the chosen ones have died and the end hasn't come, what will be your answer then?
    How can you be so sure that "all" the chosen ones have been chosen already. Didn't you read my post up above?

    Yadirf

    Daniel 11:35 ... a KEY prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.

  • gumby
    gumby

    Yadirf: ..You do not seem to learn anything from this board do you?
    Are you purposely trying to tick people off here with your JW garbage
    that alcoholic Rutherford taught probably in a drunken stupor?

    Quote..But His plan still awaits complete fulfillment, and the choosing of the last ones of the 144,000 is of major importance. That sort of Christian/individual, of course, is not so easy to come by. Why so? Because they must meet the strict requirement of being truly “holy”. Such people are quite rare.

    He must meet strict requirements......typical of a cult isn't it?
    "Work your way in fella's! That's what we teach here in brooklyn! Work your way to salvation! There is NO FREE GIFT in our way of thinkin! Believing and having faith is NOT all that is required the way WE see it! WORK!WORK!WORK! Maybe......and it's a big maybe....you might make it! There is no TOKEN to life the way WE BOYS see at brooklyn"!

    Try reading about this subject from the source it came from and not from a bunch of followers of a man who thought HIS idea was best.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Intellectual acrobatics at its finest. You belong up there w YK, stretching the mind to near breaking point to make sense out of a nondensical theology based on hallucinations of delusional prisoner paranoiac of 2000 yrs ago. He, in his turn was influenced by teachings, some originated by a drug taking zeroster. Yes friday, revelation has copied many ideas, sometimes whole paragraphs from the avesta, which is much older than the nt. But have fun:)

    SS

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    But, but, but ... you see, 144,000 were all selected by 1879 ... whoops, that was changed to 1918 ... whoops, that was changed to 1931, whoops, that was changed to 1935 ... but, but, but ... those cottin-picken apostate anointed keep falling away messing things up ... and Jehovah has to keep zapping new replacements ... but, but, but ...

    Following Bible principles, we will avoid trying to live - or demand others to live - by an extensive and rigid set of dos and don'ts that go beyond the teachings of the Bible. The Watchtower, 4-15-02, pg 22, pp 15

  • Dutchie
    Dutchie

    Yardif, I think you are to be commended. You have shown that you have completely absorbed all WT theology and are able to make seemingly credible arguments out of what are simply the fantastic, ever changing, teachings of a cult. You have taken WT fairy tales and spun them to new lengths. Judge Rutherford would have been so proud of you.

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed
    Jesus’ kingdom will consist of 144,000 co-rulers, SOME OF WHICH HAVE YET TO BE SELECTED.


    How is this possible given that the Watchtower declared the number sealed in the early thirties with the revelation of the Great Crowd?

    If God's Spirit is filling a Kingdom Hall, how is it that Satan can manuever the ones within that Kingdom Hall at the same time?

  • Yadirf
    Yadirf

    DakotaRed

    Jesus’ kingdom will consist of 144,000 co-rulers, SOME OF WHICH HAVE YET TO BE SELECTED.

    How is this possible given that the Watchtower declared the number sealed in the early thirties with the revelation of the Great Crowd?
    Have you NEVER read my signature scripture?

    Daniel 11:35 ... a KEY prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.

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