THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SCANDEL & SIN

by William Penwell 16 Replies latest jw friends

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  William Penwell

  I just watch the Montel Williams show on "THE CATHOLIC CHURCH: SCANDAL AND SIN". "It’s a scandal shrouded in secrecy that many believe the Roman Catholic Church has enabled…meet alleged victims of sexual abuse and hear the church’s response." I just sent him a response in regards to the fact that the Catholic Church is not the only religion that has covered sexual abuse in its ranks. I also sent him the link to Silent Lambs. Anyone else interested in sending him an email his web site is:

  http://www.montelshow.com/show/index.vep

  and Email is at:

  http://www.montelshow.com/forms/email_m.vep

  Will

  "I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's."
  Mark Twain
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  Celia

  Good for you. People need to know.
  Rank and File JWs are the ones who must learn about what has been going on in their ranks... most of them are clueless. They are so certain things like that would never happen amongst Jehovah's people... they're blind.
  But of course, the JWs are such a minuscule sect, who else cares ?
  No comparison with the huge Catholic church...
  This is big news !
• 

  MavMan

  The difference in night and day.

  Catholic priests guilty of child abuse were not disciplined by the church. Many were just moved to another church to continue their services (and abuse). Others were just covered up.

  Jehovah's Witnesses disfellowship child abusers. They do not move them to another congregation were they can start clean. They handle the situation locally so they are not covering up the abuser.
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  Celia

  MavMan,
  In some cases, yes, maybe, the molester has been DF.... to be reinstated a few months later...and nobody in the congregation was told about his "sin", so parents could not protect their children from the pedophile...and the public the molester meets (in the door-to-door work) does not know the JW peddling Watchtowers and Awakes! at their door is a child abuser...
  So, tell me again, what is the big difference ?
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  MavMan

  Actually reinstatement usually comes after a year of the person attending meetings. When requesting to be reinstated the person then meets with the judicial committee again. At that point if the judicial committee sees fruits of repentance, then the person is reinstated. The person has received discipline for his actions. I know what the studies show, but will the person that is reinstated go back to his sinning ways? Maybe or maybe not. Each case is different. By disfellowshipping the person, the congregation is protected as there is no contact with that person.
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  Will Power

  Jehovah's Witnesses disfellowship child abusers. They do not move them to another congregation were they can start clean. They handle the situation locally so they are not covering up the abuser.

  But you forgot to mention the ones who are not DF'd because there weren't 2 witnesses. Or where a "man's" voice out weighs the "woman's" and is more credible. Or when the ped confesses and repents in secret and promises not to do it again. Or when the victim is DF'd in case he/she talks. Remember they are "no part of this world" so do not fall under man's law, but Organizational law, I mean God's law, run by god's organization, run by men who makes laws for men that must be backed up by at least 1 scripture, making it god's law. And that is the legal jargon that separates church from state.
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  Celia

  By disfellowshipping the person, the congregation is protected as there is no contact with that person.

  Ok, yes, maybe, because you shun DF persons... but what about the pedophile who is not DF, because the child who came forward did not have 2 witnesses ? and you can't spread rumors now, can you? The elders can't even warn parents in the congregation that so-and-so may have a problem and it would be better not to let him near the children... and as long the proper authorities (police) is not contacted in such cases, what about other kids who live near the pervert ?
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  MavMan

  The 2 witness prerequisite was given in the Mosaic Law to protect people from slander or false accusations by their enemies. Surely, you see the benefit of that prerequisite when someone accuses another of wrongdoing. Even in courts today, solid evidence must be presented in order to prosecute a wrongdoer. 2 witnesses would provide that solid evidence to convict someone in the congregation.

  Unfortunately it is true that it is very frustrating for those victims that were abused and are the only ones accusing the abuser. In those cases you will agree that extreme caution must be taken to protect the victim, but also to make sure that the accusation is a valid one. You say:just turn him in to the authorities and let them decide. I think the organization has also looked into that argument and have told elders to not interfere with a person going to the authorities. So this is a positive step forward.

  The elders can't even warn parents in the congregation that so-and-so may have a problem and it would be better not to let him near the children

  Actually the elders do have the authority to warn parents of possible abusers if that person has been convicted (by a judicial committee in the past) of that sin. They do not make an announcement to the congregation, but they do give a talk in the Service Meeting a few weeks after the judicial committee about that sin without giving out names. The members of the congregation are then formally warned of the dangers of these predators. Each parent is responsible for the safety of their children. Elders have approached a parent and warned them (without giving out details) about not associating with a certain individual. It's up to that parent to follow the counsel or disregard.
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  William Penwell

  I think the whole point here is not that the local elders don't deal with the problem and DF the individual. Like the problem with the Catholic Church, the JW are hesitant to report such individuals to the authorities. What that person has done, he/she should be dealt with criminally. Like Celia remarked these individuals are sometimes moved to other congregations and because they have been dealt with by the elders, their sin has been covered up. You could then have a pedophile move in to your congregation and not knowing it has them playing with your children. These type of people are sick, good at manipulating and lying. They should not be around young children. They, the pedophile are good at putting themselves into positions of trust around young children. So no matter how much counseling and repentance I would never trust them around children. This is very much the same problem that the Catholic Church is having.

  Will

  "I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's."
  Mark Twain
• 

  MavMan

  he/she should be dealt with criminally

  I agree fully with your comment William if the person has been proved to be a pedophile.

  Like Celia remarked these individuals are sometimes moved to other congregations and because they have been dealt with by the elders, their sin has been covered up.

  I reread through Celia's posts and did not see where she said that these individuals are "sometimes moved to other congregations". Either way, no witnesses are moved by the Watchtower Society to other congregations when they have been disciplined by a judicial committee. Now, the individual might decide to move, but that is his choice. When someone moves to another congregation, the elders in the new congregation will request the publisher cards and a letter of introduction for that individual. It has been Watchtower policy since the early 90's that if the individual is a child molester or abuser, that this should be included in the introduction letter. This way the elders in the new congregation are warned and can keep a close eye on the individual.