How anyone can believe that the Watch Tower Society accidentally signed on as an organization associated with the United Nations, each year, for a decade, is beyond me.
My chat with an Elder about the UN thing! Help!
by awakening 51 Replies latest jw friends
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Black Sheep
jwfacts has a great responce if the Elder brings up the subject again.
Remember that a JW who has invested most of his life into this insanity isn't going to be honest with you about what is going on in his head, so never expect a capitulation. Leave it to fester and pick another subject. The subject must undermine 'Selection'.
Pose everything as a question and never offer an opinion.
Why bother talking to an Elder, anyway? He's not your family and he may order your family to shun you if he sees you wearing an APOSTATE HAT. Save your questions for people you really care about.
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Hoffnung
show the elder with the WT LIB CD-ROM the amount of occurences of "United Nations" from 1980-1990, from 1991-2000 and from 2001-2010. He will have to notice that there is a double amount of occurences from 1991-2000 than in the other 2 periods, and the tone of the articles took a definite 180 degrees turn to the positive in the 90's. This proves they knew what was requested from the UN for this membership, and they acted accordingly, thereby promoting an organization they identified just a few years earlier as "disgusting" and the thing that wants to sit on the throne of "Gods Kingdom". The contents of Watchtower and Awake articles must be approved by GB members prior to going in print, so it had received the "thumbs up" from the highest levels in the Society's hierarchy. Does somebody wants to argue that this promotion of the disgusting thing happened under the guidance of the Holy Spirit?
Obviously they did not correct it when they became aware of it, they corrected it because it started to draw a lot of negative attention from outside (newspaper article in the Guardian) and inside (a lot of letters were sent to Brooklyn about it), and started to threathen their holy papal position.
Hoffnung
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awakening
Thanks guys for all your comments. I know for sure this elder will not research the issue for himself. One comment he made was 'just think for a moment where this is going (long dramatic pause) if you find out that the society acted in an underhanded way then you and I are in a lot of trouble! It depends if you put your trust in strangers or in Jehovahs organisation.' I followed with a comment that we wouldent want to bury our head in the sand. He said that wasnt the point, the issue was a matter of faith. Then i realised the circular nature and futility of the discussion becausesuddenly we were back to my weak spiritual state! There is no winning!
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notjustyet
Something just hit me about this issue and the last "new light", Do you think that the new idea about only being the GB when all are "meeting together" could be used, at least fr future mishaps to excuse the lone gun GB member that gets caught doing something such as this.
We've all heard the comment when a JW does something bad, like rob a bank etc "There not a Jw " reasoning that this somehow keeps the Borg clean.
Could this be used currently to prevent any more mishaps like this one? I mean at this point, anything a GB member does could be dismissed as not coming from Jah since they were not meeting all together as the GB. Kinda of a get out of Jail free card for the WTBTS, although the actual member would be the one held accountable.
NJY
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00DAD
awakening: He said that wasnt the point, the issue was a matter of faith.
That's right. He has put is faith in a organization run by duplicitous, deceitful, hypocritical men that never, ever admit when they are wrong. For this elder to acknowledge that would mean the HE has to admit that HE has been wrong.
Cognitive dissonance is a bitch. Denial is easier.
Just give your brain the rest of your life off.
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DesirousOfChange
BLACK SHEEP:Why bother talking to an Elder, anyway? He's not your family and he may order your family to shun you if he sees you wearing an APOSTATE HAT. Save your questions for people you really care about.
AWAKENING: Black Sheep has it right. If you are a baptized JW, you are setting yourself up for getting DFd for apostacy. Just the fact of reading on "apostate" websites. The UN issue is difficult to find anywhere else because no one else cares about it. If you are concerned about being DFd, then you'd better do some damage control:
(1) Claim you were alerted to this issue by someone else --friend, co-worker, relative, etc. ANY info you have on it came from them and NOT an "apostate" website.
(2) You might still find the original ariticle from (I think) the Guardian Newspaper (UK) and at least that would not be from an "apostate" source.
(3) There is a website that actually defends the WTS on this (thus I would consider it NOT an apostate website) thus you could use it as an "innocent" source of information.
Just be aware of your risk. This kind of discussion with a die-hard Elder probably will harm you more than help him. Definitely won't help you to have a successful "fade" if that becomes your goal.
Doc
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00DAD
DesirousOfChange: You might still find the original ariticle from (I think) the Guardian Newspaper (UK) and at least that would not be from an "apostate" source.
You asked for it, you got it:
Stephen Bates , religious affairs correspondent
The Guardian, Sunday 14 October 2001 20.28 EDT -
zed is dead
If you had an immoral relationship for 10 years and got caught in the act, you would be disfellowshipped. They had one for 10 years with the wild beast, and its okay because they corrected it after they were caught red handed?
zed
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88JM
But they never did really abandon it - they still have NGO status!