by l p 15 Replies latest jw friends
this is in response to the article in "the age" newspaper in australia this morning. The bethel elder solicitor Vin toole quoted the page and lied. But alas no one can get onto the jw website bec google wont let anyone on it...
is this on purpose?
lp
It opens normally with Live Search: sd-7 has it.
http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning/
Those who were baptized as Jehovah’s Witnesses but no longer preach to others, perhaps even drifting away from association with fellow believers, are not shunned. In fact, we reach out to them and try to rekindle their spiritual interest.
We do not automatically disfellowship someone who commits a serious sin. If, however, a baptized Witness makes a practice of breaking the Bible’s moral code and does not repent, he or she will be shunned or disfellowshipped. The Bible clearly states: “ Remove the wicked man from among yourselves. ”—1 Corinthians 5:13.
What of a man who is disfellowshipped but whose wife and children are still Jehovah’s Witnesses? The religious ties he had with his family change, but blood ties remain. The marriage relationship and normal family affections and dealings continue.
Disfellowshipped individuals may attend our religious services. If they wish, they may also receive spiritual counsel from congregation elders. The goal is to help each individual once more to qualify to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Disfellowshipped people who reject improper conduct and demonstrate a sincere desire to live by the Bible’s standards are always welcome to become members of the congregation again.
--This is a subtle change. They start by avoiding a direct answer to the actual question, by throwing out the red herring of a person who is clearly inactive, not a former member as the question clearly states. This misleads the reader at the beginning to think that the answer is no, when of course...
"If, however, a baptized Witness makes a practice of breaking the Bible’s moral code and does not repent, he or she will be shunned or disfellowshipped."
--So the direct, true answer is put in the second paragraph. However, a lie is coupled with this true answer, in that "the Bible's moral code" is expanded to include every rule in the Watchtower's moral code. Including disagreeing even in a small way with any of the Watchtower Society's teachings, even if you never teach anyone else your opinion and continue to teach their doctrines. Other rules include taking blood transfusion, getting in vitro fertilization, working on an army base as a barber or putting a ceiling on a church, giving your wife oral sex, and the list goes on.
"We do not automatically disfellowship someone who commits a serious sin."
--Not entirely true, as a person who doesn't meet with the elders will be automatically disfellowshipped whether he's actually guilty or not, so long as there is enough circumstantial evidence for the elders to act on.
"What of a man who is disfellowshipped but whose wife and children are still Jehovah’s Witnesses? The religious ties he had with his family change, but blood ties remain. The marriage relationship and normal family affections and dealings continue."
--This is a lie. Neither the normal, loving marriage relationship nor normal family affections will continue with a disfellowshipped person. I know this from personal experience. The treatment a disfellowshipped mate receives from their spouse is typically emotionally abusive. This statement also conceals the fact that despite those "blood ties", children or parents who do not live in the same home are to be totally shunned.
"Disfellowshipped people who reject improper conduct and demonstrate a sincere desire to live by the Bible’s standards are always welcome to become members of the congregation again."
--The definitions of "improper conduct" are broad enough to render this statement decidedly vague. A person's "sincere desire to live by the Bible's standards" has absolutely nothing to do with their becoming members of the congregation again; living by "the Watchtower's standards" is what must be demonstrated. The welcome will only be given based on meeting attendance and absolute acceptance of all Watchtower teachings, plus the submission of a letter requesting reinstatement, plus a meeting with three elders, who may decide a person is not "sincere enough" no matter what he or she does.
So...there are about 3 or 4 lies and one misleading statement to open the answer to the question.
--sd-7
thanks transhuman68 and sd-7
however in the land down under we can't access the borgs website at all this morning...im thinking it could be bec of the article this morning in the paper....
are you able to screen shot it and email it to me??
lp
Question : What happens to members who are fed up bein' lied to about the things that were supposed to be the " Truth " ?????
Disassociation
" The person who disassociates himself by repudiating the faith and deliberately abandoning Jehovah's worship is viewed in the same way as one who is disfellowshipped. "______Organized to do Jehovah's Will book page 155
Question : How does the WTS go about shunning it's members ????
Disfellowship
" When it becomes necessary to disfellowship an unrepentant wrongdoer from the congregation, a brief announcement is made simply stating: "[ name of person ] is no longer one of Jehovah's witnesses." There is no need to elaborate. This will alert faithful members of the congregation to stop associating with that person."______Organized to do Jehovah's Will page 154
Question: Why is there no need to elaborate why the specific member was disfellowshipped ?????
Answer : Because some situations may lead to more questions and doubts in the Organization
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Right-click with your mouse, and select 'save picture'. I'm in Victoria and can access the site o.k....
Does anyone have the original statment re df'ing when watchtower.org first went up?
It looks like the Watchtower changed the content of this article in the last day or two. It originally claimed that they didn't shun anyone.
If, however, a baptized Witness makes a practice of breaking the Bible's moral code and does not repent, he or she will be shunned or disfellowshipped.
The sentence above has now been added to the article. I wonder if they were getting a lot of traffic to that part of their website?
This is the web archive from Aug 2012. The text looks the same to me.
http://web.archive.org/web/20120830063214/http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning
The google webcache is saying it's version is 8th March 2013. Again the text looks the same.
Are people convinced the text has changed?
