Question about talking to JW

by darklight 21 Replies latest jw friends

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  Newly Enlightened

  First off WELCOME to this board, nice to have you here. I hope you stick around.

  It's good that you've been playing along. If you calmly ask them innocent sounding questions and make them do their own research then you can help them by planting some questions in their mind. But it has to be done calmly, without confrontation otherwise the JW radar goes up.

  That is what happened to a JW decades ago. Carl Olaf Jonsson. He had a bible student ask him to prove that 607bce & 1914 were the dates mentioned in the bible. He couldn't do it. Several years later he wrote the book 'Gentile Times Reconsidered' proving that WT was wrong. He was kicked out of WTBT$ for his research.

  I don't know if you've come to the chapter yet in your study about God's name. They believe it to be Jehovah and have even taken it as part of their name. Here's some info for you. This comes from the Catholic answers website. http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/is-gods-name-yahweh-or-jehovah

  But you can ask them, "Well if JW's have gotten totally away from other religions, especially the Catholic Church, then why do you use the name Jehovah, when it was a Catholic Monk's INVENTION?"

  They can try to explain it away all they want to, but they cannot answer that one!
• 

  return of parakeet

  "But honestly they ARE good humans, and I feel sorry that they are destroying their life and children with this ##"

  The very fact that they ARE destroying their children's lives demonstrates that they are NOT "good humans." Also consider that they will let their child die before allowing a life-saving blood transfusion.

  AND, if anyone leaves their religion for ANY reason, these "good humans" will act as though that person never existed, even if it's one of their own family.

  "My question is, are these people so brainwashed that they are unable to think anything without the watchtower?"

  Yes, they are that brainwashed. Read some books about cults -- you'll recognize the braindead dub profile immediately.

  "Is it possible to plant small seeds of doubt into their mind?"

  You can try, but don't hold your breath waiting for them to change.

  "Or should I just say thanks but no thanks and let them figure it out themself (doubt that will ever happen)"

  If you enjoy baiting dubs, keep going with the study. At the very least, the time they spend with you is time they don't spend with someone who might actually buy into their crap.
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  DesirousOfChange

  You cannot get into doctrine. Fernando's and Newly Enlightened's suggestions will just be poo-pooed as "it doesn't matter" what we call God in this language or that language, it's the accepted pronunciation; and, I'm not even sure what the point is about Paul's Good News vs. Acts' Good News. Anyway, that doesn't matter. It won't work. They only accept the doctrine as it is understood/interpreted by their WT Leaders.

  If they are newly converted themselves, they are likely unaware of how adamant the WTS prophesied the End of the World in 1975. They have been told that it was individual JWs who exaggerated what was actually said because of their misguided expectations, but that's BS. The WT published often and strongly that there was no need to get an education, get married, have children, pay for a home, worry about retirement because by 1975 (+/-) Armageddon would be here and usher in the New World Paradise. There are real quotes from Watchtower & Awake magazines and other JW publications that are available to prove this. IF they are old timers, then they have come to terms with these "false predictions" and rationalized them as the errors of "imperfect men" running the Organization. Imperfect and in error, just like the Apostles. (You can find detailed quotes about it on jwfacts.com.)

  In the same breath, the WTS repudiates all the other "Doomday" organizations, calling them false prophets. Even some blinded cult members can be helped to see this hypocrisy. Deut 18:18-21 call ALL who give failed predictions "false prophets". They'll clamin their never said they were "prophets". But they did in the WT magazine. They most certainly claim that what they print is directed by God's Holy Spirit. So why is GOD lying to us then??

  It's best that these issues are NOT from you. But from some source who is trying to discourage you from continuing your interest in the JW religion. You must appear sincere and heartfelt, but being "stumbled" by some badass friend, co-worker, or family member. THey will tell you they are Satan's tool trying to discourage you from finding The Truth. But if they ever see that it is YOU challenging them, they wlil judge you as unworthy and cease calling on you.

  Good luck,

  Doc
• 

  mind blown

  Yes and many are hanging on hope of a new paradise. Many dare not question. It will destroy a hope they've sacrificed and been waiting for. And the WTS works and feeds off humans primal fear.

  Plus, MANY do not really know the WTS real doctrines, which they seem to teach once every 10 years or so in WT study. For instance the New Covenant or Christ ONLY Mediator for the GB and 144000.

  One of my relatives sees there are serious issues with the GB, but cannot separate what the bible says, vs what the GB is dicating to them. I ask if the GB is wrong and constantly change teachings, couldn't they be wrong about shunning or other dogma? Nothing penetrates.
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  Dismissing servant

  This is what is called "Cognitive dissonance". They fear losing their hope of eternal life when confronted with facts that not support their belief system, so they just ignore or dismiss facts.

  To reach a dissonant person you must make them feel safe and get behind their dissonance. Steven Hassan has written a lot about this, reaching the "genuine self" not the "cult self".
• 

  happy@last

  Whatever you ask they will always go the WTS route. You might be able to say you've been doing additional research and wonder why for example the name they use for their god was from the interpretation of a Spanish monk in 1270, or something similar.
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  mind blown

  Dismissing servant do you know the title of his book. I would like to purchase one.
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  Dismissing servant

  I think it is "Combatting Cult Mind Control"
• 

  krejames

  Welcome Darklight

  Why not say something like you read in their literature somewhere that there have been more earthquakes since 1914 than in all of history before that. Then say that you decided to check this out on the US Geographical Society website and it says that this isn't true (you can show them the webpage where it says the average has been pretty much the same every year on record). They might then frantically check the Reasoning Book p236. (That, from JW Facts, was a big "seed" for me).

  There are plenty of other subtle seeds you can plant. For example they will believe that JWs spoke out against Hitler's tyranny from the word go unlike those evil catholics . You won't need to look too hard through the literature for this kind of claim. You could say that on checking this out you found on wikipedia references to the 1934 Yearbook "declaration of Facts" and Rutherford's letter to Hitler (look up rutherford/hitler). You could say you're confused and wonder what their take on it is. You could say that it doesn't appear to be very politically neutral (references to US and UK as evil wild beast etc, while in support of Germany) (this was another biggie that got me thinking).

  Whatever they answer don't react as if you don't believe them, just remain puzzled and say "I'm sure there must be some explanation". Believe me they will go back to others and ask about this because they won't know what to say.

  Obviously this depends on whether you can be bothered hehe
• 

  Gopher

  But honestly they ARE good humans, and I feel sorry that they are destroying their life and children with this ##
  
  My question is, are these people so brainwashed that they are unable to think anything without the watchtower?

  Yes many JW's are nice people, as much as you'd find in other religions or among unbelievers. No, they CAN and do think of things outside the Watchtower. The way they are taught, it leads them to have two sides to their personality - the JW-robot side, and the human side. When they are with non-JW's who might convert, they are stuck in JW-robot mode. It is really hard to pierce through that. Some possible questions have been suggested above, and it may plant a seed. Many people's experience with JW's is that, after asking them a question they don't expect, they say they'll research it and get back to you - but then never do.