Is this true? Do the elders really do it like this?

by Julia Orwell 44 Replies latest jw friends

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  Julia Orwell

  I put this week's WT paragraph about disfellowshipping on my FB page and said how poor Robert's family didn't even check to see whether he was dead or alive in 16 years and a friend of mine of the 'conscious class' commented about how unChristian she felt disfellowshipping to this degree is, and I agreed.

  Another friend, and uber-JW who has a host of illnesses and yet pioneers, who everytime she and her husband go to another congregation, if he's not appointed within three years they move to another and try for an appointment there - he used to be an elder and no one is willing to promote him again- replied to my thread. Now keep in mind she has a dfd son and she doesn't even know whether he is dead or alive, because she follows the WT to the tee. She replied, among other things,with this:

  "I just feel sometimes people only hear the side of the "poor me" disfellowshipped one and think "how nasty to shun" family is unloving. The disfellowshipped one makes the decision to leave. The elders explain repeatedly what the co nsequences are. It is not a "one error, you're out" situation. "No discipline is joyous but grievous" so the disfellowshipped one has to lay the blame somewhere.... Remember Adam blamed Eve and Eve blamed the Serpent. All the family can do is try to keep loyal to Jehovah because it is about Universal Soveriegnty not "you diidnt help your poor unfortunate son in his hour of need". Be careful to never judge others Julia. Your comments to this article were definitely doing that. Just what Satan wants...."

  I used to be WT-bred callous towards dfd ones, until I spoke to people on this post. You who have been before the JC, is the above true? Is it entirely your choice, and do the elders repeatedly explain the consequences, and do the dfd ones blame everyone but themselves?
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  zeb

  Pedophiles blame every one but themselves when the Police catch them.
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  cantleave

  If you realise that that you are living a lie and no longer want to be part of it, how can that be your choice?

  When I was an elder I was invoved in a case where a guy realised that JW's did not have the "truth" and looked into other churches. We DF'd him for apostasy. Tell me Julia - was that his fault? Or was the fault of the organisation for not being truthful?

  My wife and I were DF'd for apostasy. What would have been more reprehensible on our part, staying loyal to what we now knew was a lie, or being labelled as apostates for walking away from those lies?

  edit...

  BTW that doesn't mean I think it is ever anyone's own fault. Is it your fault if you are born gay? Is it your fault if you want out of an unhappy marriage? Is it your fault if you don't want to be controlled by a cult's system of rules and regulations?

  Anyone should be allowed to freely leave the organisation without consequences!
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  Lozhasleft

  I confessed a minor sin with sincere repentance and was disfellowshipped. When I asked them, in tears, how that could happen if I was sorry, one of them said and I quote "It's not quite that simple". So the uber JW doesn't know what she's talking about.

  Later, my shock at the events, and the destruction of my trust, led me to research the WTBS, and that set me free, so .... with hindsight I can say it was a good thing....but a devastating thing to live through with great losses.

  Loz x
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  ScenicViewer

  The uber-JW said,

  The elders explain repeatedly what the co nsequences are. It is not a "one error, you're out" situation.

  I would ask her how she knows this. Has she been in a judical situation herself? If not, was she granted permission to sit in on a JC? That would not be permitted. More than likely she is saying what she thinks, which is not always the reality. Congregation members are never allowed to know the details of any judicial matter, so how could anyone know if any case was handled justly?

  I remember a Convention part in the early 1970s, Dodger Stadium, which revealed that three elders had conspired to get someone they didn't like DF'd, another elder if I remember correctly. Naturally the focus of the part was aimed at waiting on Jehovah to set things straight, and the man was reportedly allowed back in after the conspiracy was revealed, but that DF'ing was completely unjust, and I remember being surprised to learn that such things could happen in Jehovah's Organization. What about the unjust DF'ings that don't get set straight? What about the DF'ings that happen to good people because they can't agree with the teaching that allows a child to die for lack of blood, or some other Watchtower teaching that is clearly bad?

  Your poster is reacting to how she percieves the Organization, which is wrong a perception.

  If only Watchtower was what it pretended to be.
• 

  Splash

  Shepherd the Flock of God (2010) p.91

  9. While there is no such thing as automatic disfellowshipping, an individual may have gone so far into sin that be may not be able to demonstrate sufficient repentance to the judicial committee at the time of the hearing. If so, he must be disfellowshipped.

  Splash
• 

  SophieG

  Hi Julia.... Reaching out my hand to shake yours....

  i felt compelled to respond to your post regarding what your JW Friend said especially the part about the blame game with Adam and Eve etc. what she fails to realize that even despite what they did Jehovah DID NOT SHUN them, neither did he tell future family members to shun their first parents.

  I also second ScenicVewer's and Cantleave's statements.

  Your friend's statement makes no sense. She actually makes Jehovah out to be unloving. Basically Jehovah is saying shun your CHILD and stay obedient to me and if your child never returns so be it. It's shows a lack of love on Jehovah and the parents part.

  I know people who walked into a JC completely remorseful and bereft and was DfD anyway. No elder repeatedly warned them of the consequences. The persons made mistakes and wanted to make it right and STAY in the org. She has no idea what she is talking about.i know an elder who is dying emotionally because his child was DfD and is ill from alcoholism and he cannot help his child. That is wrong.

  it's a good thing I am not on your FB page as I would have preceded to rip this person a new hole and dared her to come back with another response which would only make her look more ridiculous. These types of folks speak out their asses. She basically has told the world she will never speak to her child again because Jah wants her loyalty over her love for her child. Let her keep speaking as it only shows others how unbalanced they are.

  this is what I would say to her: if your son kept beating up a kid and eventually paid the price and went to prison would you desert him and never visit him? So why if he is kicked out of the congregation would you totally desert him now? Jah is allowing a govt to let you have visitations with a child but revokes it if he errs within a group!

  I wish you the best with her. I pity her child.
• 

  LouBelle

  I knew the consequences of my decision. But they didn't even try to prove their beliefs with the bible and only the bible - I asked them too and they sent a sister to me who brought all the literature along - no one on one with the bible.

  I don't blame anyone.

  The faith does advocate conditional love. Believe as we do and we'll associate with you, choose to leave = shunned.
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  happy@last

  It may be that over a period of time a person was counselled about something, and told the consequence of not following the counsel would be disfellowshipping. That is a point that is considered in a JC, has the person been repeatedly counselled, if so are they truly repentant.

  Within the setting of a JC only, there is no repeating of consequences, the elders are told that they are to look for repentance even during the JC as they may have a change of heart.
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  Chaserious

  Of course it can be one error and you're out. Or one doctrine you disagree with and you're out. If you're Catholic and disagree with the contraception ban, you can disregard it at your own risk (of eternal damnation, I suppose), but you don't have to choose between that and all of your friends and family. But if you disagree with the blood ban and accept a blood transfusion, or even tell others that it's okay to do so, you will be expelled. If they can establish that you took blood, they won't even hold a JC to see if you really want to leave. It's considered an automatic disassociation. Same with joining the military. A friend of mine from growing up kind of faded, but then joined the military, and he was DF'd (technically DA'd, but really what's the difference) without a judicial committee.

  Technically it was his choice to join the military, but the choice really was between blindly obeying every rule and doctrine or having your family and friends.