QC, Prologos etc
Prologos..
Nice try but this is what you said "look at the planck picture: scanning in all directions, it is almost the same. we are at the center of the universe."
There is no centre of the universe, when the quote says that every point is the centre of the universe it is just expanding on the point that there is no centre. But take on new data and asjust your intepretation and answers accordingly all you wish (see opening post).
A few of you have mentioned that it was openly accepted. I was 100% brought up being told it was a lie and a means to explain away evolution without a god. I know that some beliefs and rules are geographical in the JW's, some accept dinosaurs, near Sydney in Australia I heard many people say the bones were buried by demons to make us question our faith. I have never heard this before or anywhere else..
Anyway, all I did was explain away my experience. I know some of you are claiming that its a straw man argument, but that requires all christians to accept the big bang and I know full well they dont. Not to mention, this model clearly contradicts Genesis 1 as I mentioned and nobody attempted to explain.
It's cool that you accept the science, but you don't get medals for it, it's the logical thing to do. This post is clearly about people who deny it.
Yes I dont believe in the JW's anymore, but this forum is dedicated to talking about JW issues, you can't dictate what is and isnt up for discussion, and I have a valid reason to make this thread. It isnt about being clever or unkind, I clarify both these claims in my opening post, it was predictable that it would be mentioned.
If you believe in the Big bang good for you, this thread is about people that didn't. If you want to make Genesis sound like the big bang, thats cool too, but just saying it won't cut it for the people that bother to compare the now confirmed model to those verses.
The Genesis 1 creation account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science. In Genesis, the earth is created before light and stars, The order of events known from science is just the opposite.God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). And how could there be "the evening and the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them?
Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes.
God makes two lights: "the greater light [the sun] to rule the day, and the lesser light [the moon] to rule the night." But the moon is not a light, but only reflects light from the sun. And why, if God made the moon to "rule the night", does it spend half of its time moving through the daytime sky?
"He made the stars also." God spends a day making light (before making the stars) and separating light from darkness; then, at the end of a hard day's work, and almost as an afterthought, he makes the trillions of stars.
In Genesis 1 the entire creation takes 6 days, but the universe is at least 13.8 billion years old, with new stars constantly being formed.
QC: Here are some pictures and facts (below) just for you....
Like the Midrash and the Talmud, the Targum does not think of a globe of the spherical earth, around which the sun revolves in 24 hours, but of a flat disk of the earth, above which the sun completes its semicircle in an average of 12 hours.
Proceedings of the American Academy for Jewish Research, Vol. 22 (1953), pp. 23-53, published by American Academy for Jewish Research.
A good idea of the similarly primitive state of Hebrew astronomy can be gained from Biblical writings, such as the Genesis creation story and the various Psalms that extol the firmament, the stars, the sun, and the earth. The Hebrews saw the earth as an almost flat surface consisting of a solid and a liquid part, and the sky as the realm of light in which heavenly bodies move.The earth rested on cornerstones and could not be moved except by 'Jehovah' (as in an earthquake). According to the Hebrews, the sun and the moon were only a short distance from one another. -
"Cosmology." Encyclopedia Americana. Grolier Online, 2012. Author: Giorgio Abetti, Astrophysical Observatory of Arcetri-Firenze.
The picture of the universe in Talmudic texts has the Earth in the center of creation with heaven as a hemisphere spread over it. The Earth is usually described as a disk encircled by water.
Judaism, Encyclopedia of Science and Religion, Ed. J. Wentzel Vrede van Huyssteen. Vol. 2. New York: Macmillan Reference USA, 2003. p477-483. Hava Tirosh-Samuelson
And, Jews did not believe the earth was a flat circular disc in space. The only way the earth can appear as a circle from any point in space (God is ubiquitous) it would have to be a sphere. Your trying to be clever creating straw man arguments isn’t working.
QC, 2013, JW.Net
