Ghosts

RWC

Through one of the respopnses to Old Hippie's strange noise thread, a thought occurred to me. Do Atheists or agnostics believe in ghosts? And if you do, what do you think they are?

TR

I don't believe in ghosts. Not until I experience one or some other 'paranormal' activity, that is.

TR

funkyderek

Do Atheists or agnostics believe in ghosts? And if you do, what do you think they are?

Generally no, although I can't speak for everyone else. Here is a list of some things I don't believe in:

Angels, banshees, Bigfoot, demons, devils, djinni, dragons, elves, fairies, gods, ghouls, ghosts, goblins, gremlins, incubi, leprechauns, poltergeists, succubi, unicorns, vampires, werewolves, Yeti, zombies.

The list is, of course, incomplete but in general I only believe in things that actually exist.

--
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. - Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts

Liberty

Hi again RWC,

I can't speak for all Atheists but I'd say most of us are a pretty skeptical bunch. Ghosts inhabit the same realms as the gods and monsters, that is, those of the foggy imagination. Without convincing evidence ghosts are just not ready to be deemed as real along with their friends Bigfoot and Nessie. I love to see shows on these subjects where paranormal investigators feverishly try to get the evidence needed to prove that these things are real but the good stuff is always just out of reach.

Until better evidence is produced I'd say that ghosts,demons, and other spirits are not real. I am willing to admit that such things are possible along with God but I need more evidence before I can seriously start planning my life around them. Most of this stuff can be explained far more easily and rationally by science than the far-fetched and complex puzzles/rituals the mediums, psychics, and religious leaders would have us believe in.

Logic predicts certain patterns if things are real but the popular stories of the gods, angels,devils, and ghosts are usually beyond illogic and don't fit consistant patterns. For example, if demons are real why do they only attack the religious who claim God's protection but completely ignor godless scientists and Atheists who should be totally at their mercy? The same for the spirits of the dead. I have as many dead relation and friends as anyone but their ghosts never visit me or millions like me. If we all become spirits when we die and are capable of communicating with the living then why aren't we all doing it everyday? Why do demons and ghosts prefer night over day for their adventures? Or why do they need old spooky houses or ouji boards and the list goes on and on? The patterns just ring false and are clearly the results of overactive imaginations more times than not. I can't say every spiritual encounter is unreal or from a crackpot but from what I've researched most are.

By the way RWC did you see my responses on our earlier subject? I was out for a week so I hope you didn't think I had abandoned the thread. Good talking with you again on a very interesting subject.

Double Edge

For example, if demons are real why do they only attack the religious who claim God's protection but completely ignor godless scientists and Atheists who should be totally at their mercy?

Why should they attack the Atheists....their work is done with them.

Xander

OOOOoooohhhh...DE....now you have shown me the light! [8>]

Oh, wait, that makes no sense at all.

So, you are saying the overriding goal of a demon is to make good christians into atheists? (Since 'their work is already done with them')

Why would it be reported they torture them in their sleep and (sometimes) kill them? Wouldn't that make the christians more drawn to their god for protection?

Wouldn't it be better to just leave them alone? I mean, if they don't ever see any evidence of supernatural beings, won't they start questioning their beliefs? But, if the demons kept haunting them, it just reinforces their christian teachings.

If, on the other hand, demons are just generally evil and enjoy torturing humans, you'd think the 'helpless' atheists would all be dead by now at demon hands, since they have no divine protection.

You have a problem here, DE.

A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana

Valis

Everyone knows you can't have demons without dog and vice versa...the problem I always had and still do frankly is that the demons always seemed to be a lot more active than the almighty one...."that movie is demonized"..."smurfs are demonic"..."idols will bring demonic influence into your home.."...you never heard that "that movie is just chock full of jehovah!"...or "that toy is a godly influence on children..", etc...So if you don't believe in dog, then your belief in demons is simply moronic at best.

As well, people put themselves in a position to be spooked out and believe in all kinds of things. The poet Fulke Greville had this to say about the subject way back in the 16th century.

In night, when colors all to black are cast,
Distinction lost, or gone down with the light,
The eye, watch to inward senses placed,
Not seeing, yet still having power of sight,

Gives vain alarms to the inward sense,
Where fear, stirred up with witty tyranny,
Confounds all powers, and through self offense
Doth forge and raise impossibility,

Such as in thick, depriving darknesses,
Proper reflections of the error be.
And images of self-confusednesses,
Which hurt imaginations only see -
And from this nothing seen tell news of devils,
Which but expressions be of inward evils.

Sincerely,

District Overbeer

Double Edge

XANDER: You're reading way too much into my reply.

So, you are saying the overriding goal of a demon is to make good christians into atheists? (Since 'their work is already done with them')

I'm not saying any such thing. You said why do they only attack believers who claim God's protection. You're assuming that it's only the 'believers' who have seen ghosts, demons, or whatever...that's not the case. A lot of 'non-believers' have had similar experiences..I don't think they're that picky. I think a lot of what you see on TV where these Evangelists are casting out demons are people wanting their 15 minutes of fame (yeah right, like that makes them famous)... they have highly evolved imaginations. But I do think that along with unseen "positive" energy, forces, (whatever) there are unseen "negative" forces. No, I don't think it's the demons job to make atheist out of christians (they might scare the begebbers out of them though).

Again with the logic test:

If there is no GOD (positive force) than there are no demons (negative force), so the point is moot. however,

If there is a GOD (positive) then then possiblity of demons (negative) is real. It seems that their job is to counter the positive. My statement regarding not attacking atheists means what's the point...there's nothing to counter. What their job is, how they manifest themselves can probably be answered only by those who have had "real" experiences with them.

Wouldn't it be better to just leave them alone? I mean, if they don't ever see any evidence of supernatural beings, won't they start questioning their beliefs? But, if the demons kept haunting them, it just reinforces their christian teachings.

That would seem to be true if you assumed that their only mission would be to thwart a belief in GOD. Therefore, the little tricksters must have multi-purposes.

If, on the other hand, demons are just generally evil and enjoy torturing humans, you'd think the 'helpless' atheists would all be dead by now at demon hands, since they have no divine protection.

First of all, I do think demons are just generally evil...and pathetic. I think they're mad as hell (excuse the pun) all of the time. And I don't think humans, atheists or believers are helpless - I think we're hands over fist infinitly more powerful because we do have a God-given body (so to speak)and that makes them mad...I just think some of them know how to play off our imaginations and fear..and when that happens, we GIVE them the power.

As for me...except for answering this post, I don't give any thoughts to them or the time of day.

Mr Bean

IMHO

We should change the way we are calling these things. These terms were good 2000 years ago. Today, terms like UFO, ET would me more appropriate. The religion implies to us that God is just only good, omnipotent etc. Demons are pure evil.
We do know that in real live no one is only bad or only good. Since we are created as God’s image… .

Here is very interesting link: http://www.bibleufo.com/index.htm

Peace...

SixofNine

As for me...except for answering this post, I don't give any thoughts to them or the time of day.

Good, because when you do, it makes absolutely no sense.

Ghosts

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