by rubadubdub 35 Replies latest jw friends
"Absolute Spiritual Endangerment"
That is the excuse my wife used to divorce me in 1989- she even had a letter from the Bethel service desk advising her she could divorce me with those grounds and the elders wouldn't disfellowship her- she even had the gall to go to court and ask for alimony-wife support. Didn't get it- or 1/2 of my pension, either.
Villagegirl, I will do my best to resolve your confusion.
For- jgnat I am confused, I thought you said you were never a JW ? So you cannot be an apostate. Your husband is attending meetings, so he is NOT an apostate either. So how does your case compare???
Technically, I was never apostate either from my religion or the JW's. However, I have been accused of "apostate thinking". Hubby knows I hang out here. What I do have in common with rubadubadub is that I am in a mixed marriage. There are plenty of warnings about that in the watchtower literature. I have noted that when hubby has asked the elders for domestic advice, they have told him he made the decision to marry me. He'll either have to put up or shut up.
You never believed the WT was the "truth" right ?
That's right.
You married a JW ? While he was disfellowshipped ?
Hubby was never disfellowshipped. We were together and got married while he was an active Witness but not yet approved for service.
For adultry ? He was married to a JW ?
He was married to a JW. He was guilty of adultery but he was never disfellowshipped. Both he and his wife walked away from the Kingdom Hall at the time of separation.
But he divorced her and married you jgnat ?
I met hubby ten years after he left his first wife.
But you want him to leave not only his first wife but also his religion for you ?
I want my hubby to have a rich life and to reach the full potential of who he can be. The Watchtower in our bedroom puts a strain on intimacy. The constant invitations to join him in service is a pain.
And your here to get ammunition ?
I don't treat information like bullets. I support the "unbelieving mate" community and I collect ideas and thoughts that work.
Moshe wrote:
That is the excuse my wife used to divorce me in 1989- she even had a letter from the Bethel service desk advising her she could divorce me with those grounds and the elders wouldn't disfellowship her- she even had the gall to go to court and ask for alimony-wife support. Didn't get it- or 1/2 of my pension, either.
Moshe, Unfreakin' believable! Only in a Cult! (Insert vomit icon here.) As I stated, I debated entitling my thread: "Absolute Spiritual Endangerment", not a Valid Scriptural Escape Clause! Of course, the rules have changed (Let me repeat, it's a cult!) Now "Absolute Spiritual Endangerment" is grounds for a Legal Separaton only, not a "scriptural" divorce. I remember reading in the WT that "Apostacy" does not break the marital vow-- just couldn't take the time to find the quote late last night. I'm so glad to hear the courts sided with you!
Regardng your earlier comment about if things were different, I might still be a "zombie witness", you may be right. If my son didn't lose his dub wife and best friend the way he did, lose his faith and nearly lose his life and then have the rug pulled completely from under him when he was still greiving and healing; if that never happened and he was still in; I may have stayed to keep him in my life. I was not required to shun my daughter, even though she committed the same "sins" as my son did, only not openly, so she didn't get caught. This was part of my cognitive dissonance.
My son did try to return to the fold about a year after he was DF'd (unbeknownst to me), and he was chewed up and spit out by the elder he and I both saw as an loving older brother to him. My son and I have had talks about my concern that he may some day return. He assures me that is out of the question, and he has promised me that he will not go to a single meeting without calling me first. I trust him.
My daughter is a critical thinker. She is a teacher in Central America. Her boyfriend is Irish retired special forces. She is learning to use a hand gun for self-protection. I seriously doubt she is at risk. She is 32, and I believe she will chose to have her students be her kids and free up her life to travel. She has lived in major cities all over the world.
jgnat wrote:
I want my hubby to have a rich life and to reach the full potential of who he can be. The Watchtower in our bedroom puts a strain on intimacy. The constant invitations to join him in service is a pain.
And your here to get ammunition ?
I don't treat information like bullets. I support the "unbelieving mate" community and I collect ideas and thoughts that work.
jgnat, Nicely said. The flip flops on bedroom rules was on my list of grievances!
I might add that in the convoluted thinking of the Witnesses, hubby has justified our marriage as a compromise. He knows he might have given up his chance for eternal life in paradise, and has reconciled that his short time here on earth with me is enough.
jgnat wrote:
I might add that in the convoluted thinking of the Witnesses, hubby has justified our marriage as a compromise. He knows he might have given up his chance for eternal life in paradise, and has reconciled that his short time here on earth with me is enough.
Convoluted reasoning of the brainwashed, jgnat! I hope my thinking and reasoning while I was still in and since I have left can help you put a lilttle chink in your hubby's armor!
Rubdub - Your story is very interesting. Thanks for sharing. I was df'd partly for marrying my second husband, a nominal Catholic. Your post made me think about a lot of the hell I put him through because of my stupid, intolerant beliefs. He didn't oppose my religion, in fact, allowed me to raise his daughter in it during the years we were together. But the religion and the toll DFing took on our marriage finally wore things down irrevokably.
I was thinking about the JW marriage philosophy - the threefold cord thing. My nephew recently married, and every speech giving advice just kept robotically repeating "keep Jehovah in your marriage". With that kind of thinking, you are set up to believe that if one partner is not a JW, you cannot possibly have a strong marriage. Which is not true. In fact, my own parents celebrated 60 years just before my mom passed away last year - my mom was a JW when they married and he never became one. But he also never interfered and let her completely run things and raise us as JWs.
But your story and the various comments got me wondering if we may soon see the Borg suggesting that marriage to an apostate actually provides grounds for divorce. They could argue spiritual adultery, absolute spiritual endangerment, etc. It already breaks up many, many marriages, so I think the R&F would accept it.
mamochan13 wrote:
your story and the various comments got me wondering if we may soon see the Borg suggesting that marriage to an apostate actually provides grounds for divorce. They could argue spiritual adultery, absolute spiritual endangerment, etc. It already breaks up many, many marriages, so I think the R&F would accept it.
mamochan13, Sadly, I think your idea has potential for becoming a reality. Staying married to an "Apostate" makes no sense in the dub theology.
mamochan13 also wrote:
Your post made me think about a lot of the hell I put him through because of my stupid, intolerant beliefs. He didn't oppose my religion, in fact, allowed me to raise his daughter in it during the years we were together. But the religion and the toll DFing took on our marriage finally wore things down irrevokably.
mamochan13, I honestly wonder how the hell we have stayed married for nearly 35 years given the circumstances, the bOrg interference, the trauma and the differences in our temperments and thinking. The only thing I can say is neither one of us ever compleatly gave up on the other. We had built a life and family together that neither one of us was willing to walk away from for any length of time. This is not to say that there were not times that we were temporarily separated. There were times that I just could not cope, and the only skill I learned from my alcoholic father was to run away; when things get tough, the tough get going. But when I had the time to process what was going on, and hubby didn't give up on me, I always came back home. He is my home. I would forgive the grievence (and some of them were huge), and he would forgive the running away, which hurt him tremendously.
Hi rubadubdub......
My wife is still a committed J W , She lives it, breathes it & loves it, even if her relationship with the congregation is a little strained . Perhaps that has been the salvation of our marriage since she has not shopped me to the elders even though she knows enough to get me d.f'd.
I am appalled at the attitude of many board member's wives who want to leave them when they renounce the WTS. That goes totally against scripture and official teaching of the B'org....Whatever happened to Christian values? Your comments about marriage and commitment are spot-on correct.
I am glad that you were won over to the truth ....and not the other way around !
BluesBrother wrote:
I am appalled at the attitude of many board member's wives who want to leave them when they renounce the WTS. That goes totally against scripture and official teaching of the B'org....Whatever happened to Christian values? Your comments about marriage and commitment are spot-on correct.
I am glad that you were won over to the truth ....and not the other way around !
Thank you for your support! The trend I saw was appalling to me as well, and that is why I gave thought to how I might speak up about it. I mulled it over for a few days, and then started typing. The result is what flowed from my fingers with little editing or revision. I wish you all the best in keeping your marriage together and winning over your wife to TTATT!
Rubbity
