BROTHERS & SISTERS - READ THE BROCHURE!

by The Searcher 63 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  david_10 said: Anyway, I still don't know what to think of a Witness homeowner getting his house fixed for free and then keeping all the money.

  ADCMS: I re-read your post. I think in one way you are acknowledging an obvious scam in the way WT has handled matters with disaster relief. On the other hand, you take issue with a point no one here was advocating and you mentioned it twice in your post i.e. that JWs should keep their insurance check while receiving free help. Not one person commenting on this topic even remotely suggested a JW homeowner should profit from receiving disaster aid. Your comments were somewhat self-contradictory.

  Are you related to TheOldHippie by any chance?

  david_10 said: No, ADCMS, I've never met him, although he doesn't seem like such a bad person to me

  ADCMS: again, you object to a fictitious point I never raised.

  I questioned OldHippie's logic and the fact that he/she seemed to miss the whole point of the discussion, but never once did I say or infer anything negative about OldHippie's character. He/she is probably a nice person....but I didn't comment on that in my posts either, so bringing it up is a misdirection.

  OldHippie was dismissing eye-witness accounts of what's been observed Re: Assembly Hall "rent" scams and disaster relief scams and came across as a WT apologist. The points OH raised as a defense of WT tactics were without basis in logic or fact. I was correcting those incorrect views.

  I got the impression that neither you nor OldHippie read the various posts very carefully, because you drew conclusions that had nothing to do with any of the comments made. I was trying to dial you both back into the discussion, nothing more. If my comments came across differently than that, then I apologize.
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  problemaddict

  ADCMS - I get what you are saying. It seems pretty clear. Quoting them not actual cost, but what something theoretically would cost if you had Satans people build it, is not honest. It is however interesting that the homeowner in this situation could make out like a bandit.

  I guess it would be too much to ask for that person to donate some back to the branch (for materials), and then take everyone that worked on the place to dinner, and then maybe the rest given to a general fund for the community. :) Wishful thinking you say? Yeah.....wishful thinking.

  As far as the assembly halls go, I think you are forgetting the very clear expenses. There are four. Electricity, water (those toilets don't flush themselves, supplies (paper towels, cleaners), and the poor sap who lives on site making sure the place isn't molested by non-believers when nobody is looking. He makes a couple hundred a month right? So yeah, 16K sounds about right. Lol.
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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  problemaddict said: It is however interesting that the homeowner in this situation could make out like a bandit.

  Of course, agreed, this is always a possiblity.

  I firmly believe most JWs are good people, and would feel indebted enough for the help they received to donate a fair amount back into a fund to help others. From what I observed, most were truly appreciative, and neither guilting nor coercion were necessary to compel them to do the right thing. The way I observed things being handled was disturbing and really circumvented a genuine person's natural inclination to give back out of the generosity of their heart.

  For the "bad eggs" who may take advantage of the system and pocket their check, well.... that's between them and god, or their conscience. We can't do anything about it. Considering that most JWs firmly believe Jehovah sees all, and stealing from the Org. would be stealing from god, it is hard to imagine they'd foolishly risk eternal death to make a few bucks- but it could happen.

  Quoting an expected dollar figure for volunteer services rendered seems to betray that the Watchtower doesn't have too much confidence in the morality of it's members, doesn't it? If that's true, the fault lies with the teacher, not the student.
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  wallsofjericho

  even as a die-hard believer I always wondered how an assembly was so expensive. Especailly after the food service stopped.

  I learned about all the other expenses wrapped up in the assembly: the CO & DO expenses, their vehicles, gas, travel, food, accomodations, everything! Even after all that I still thought it was so high for 1 or 2 days.

  Then I learned about the WTS charging rent. RENT? plus we cleaned it and maintained it and paid for it? WTF? Then on top of that the "pre-determined donation" to the WTS being included in the totals as an "expense"? Very fraudulent as far as I am concerned. I never understood how much of a business the WTS was until I grasped this
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  cobaltcupcake

  Holy cats! That is disgusting. They're making a profit off the backs of volunteers and the hapless householder, not to mention committing insurance fraud into the bargain.

  I learned the Society was money grubbing when I quit pioneering way back in the days when we paid for literature and pioneers got a cheaper rate.

  A few months after I resigned as a pioneer I got a letter from the Society requesting that I tally up the discount I got on my leftover literature and send it to them by way of the contribution box. I was stunned. Seriously? I was flat broke, so I didn't do it and felt not one scintilla of guilt.
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  Balaamsass

  I was aware of the assembly Hall fraud. I got into trouble for questioning the fraud at a Circuit elders meeting.

  The Hurricane relief is a new one to me. Wow..the greed never ceases to amaze me. These guys stay up nights comming up with new scams..almost like "Gypsy Travelers"..(Sorry Gypsies).

  If the roof only needed a repair, a re-roof sounds like FELONY insurance fraud to me. Was the adjuster in on the scam..a JW adjuster..? Sounds like felony Insurance Fraud to me..with RICO enhancements. Some California RBCs use a JW Inspector.......hummmmmm
• 

  AndDontCallMeShirley

  A few months after I resigned as a pioneer I got a letter from the Society requesting that I tally up the discount I got on my leftover literature and send it to them by way of the contribution box. I was stunned. Seriously? I was flat broke, so I didn't do it and felt not one scintilla of guilt.

  ADCMS: Are you serious? Unbelievable! Even at the pioneer discount rate, the WT was still making a profit. I believe it was Ray Franz that pointed out the magazines actually cost only about a nickel to print. I don't remember what I paid as a pioneer as it was so many years go, but assuming you got them for 15 cents as opposed to 25 cents for the publishers, the WT is still making money.

  I think what I would have done is sent a bill to Brooklyn for all the gas, tires, oil changes, wear-and-tear on my car, coffee breaks, worn out shoes and clothes, money lost pioneering instead of working at my job, etc. and told them if they're willing to compensate me for all that, I'll be glad to donate for the discounted magazines I still had.

  Do they honestly think that 10 cent discount came anywhere near to making up for what pioneering actually cost you?

  It really shows how ungrateful WT is, doesn't it? Once your usefulness is used up you're thrown out like so much chaff.
• 

  Slavenomore

  CCC,

  That little detail about compensating for the magazine discount is a detail that I think you left out of your story, but I think it's important. I remember an account in the bible about the Pharisees and the super righteous tithing off there amount for the dill and mint. And something about straining the gnat and swallowing the camel. Something about go back and read and find out what mercy is. Anyway, what a perfect example of the nickle and dime mindset of the WTB$. It makes me think of all those talks and articles about giving up the riches and focusing on the spiritual blessings. How about forgiving the debts of others?

  ADCMS,

  I think the proof of the scummy nature of the repairs was the insured properties were done first, and at least with my experience many of them did not need a tear off and reroof. On our last couple days we went to a house, really run down and no home insurance. It was stressed not to spend too much time. ther was so much to do...and these folks were still living in the house whereas most were vacant. If anyone was down there there would know what a mess it was, the areas we worked in we're very quiet often we were the only ones. We ended up replacing a door, which a member of the crew or perhaps us don't quite recall, paid foThey of course had no insurance...and they had little funds, basic national geographic style American poverty. My wife and I and others asked what we could do and they just asked for the door to be fixed. The point is...these folks were living in this mess and they were not priority, but the roofs on vacant homes...ie easy insurance billing and easy enough work with donated roofing...number one goal...so was it it people we helped...on looking back to that week now I think the jury would consider reasonable doubt.

  Balaam,

  Total fraud. No way it can be defined as other. Because what no one has mentioned yet is the fact that no claim should have bEen made. The WTB$ was doing its in house charity program easing the burden on government agency's and yes those insurance company's who mind you raised the premiums on all policies. If the materials, labor were donated then it's a wash. The homeowner in good conscience could say, we don't need the money for the roof or the mold abatement because it was done for us for free(which it was for all parties) but we need a check for abc etc. then the WTB$ would come out of this smelling like a rose. Instead of asking for the insurance money or part of it they should have said, brother...you know we fixed your house, so it could be seen as fraud if you billed the insurance company for this work, as it was done for you by your loving brothers, and we the mythical god of the Hebrews sees all so just be forewarned we don't want you to be missing at the after armeddegon party." But instead of being concerned about stumbling the little one or the weak they asked for there cut and now they come out smelling like dead presidents.

  An illustration to this point would be this: you have your car fixed by a friend after a fender bender for free, he was just doing the generous and kind thing. The insurance company settles for the damages they asses it would cost if brought to a shop. A shop that pays workmanship comp, pays rent and labor and all the overhead. The cost of an average fender bender is around 1500-3000. The check arrives in the mail and you cash the check an take the family on a cruise. Most of us would cash the check without a second thought and head to an e coli infested overt crowded ship that loses engine power and...I digress. No one would know the difference. But we are talking about the claimed GODs organization who does everything scriptural and morally right, right? And everyone involved down there had the opportunity to learn of this scam first hand if they asked or were listening, as I and others including ADCMS did. Did the society care about stumbling us? Did they set the proper example for us to imitate...you remember imitate those taking the lead? Then a simple question is: what would Jesus do? would he shake down the homeowner, inflate the numbers so as to shake down state farm?

  Slavenomore
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  problemaddict

  ADCMS -

  Yes they do not have faith in the morality of their own members. I tend to share your viewpoint on this and other matters. One thing however, if the homeowner was a good person, and they put it all togehter, would they ever REALLY donate to anything other than the WWW? I mean, do you know JW's who have given money to charities run by secular organizations or (gulp), religious institutions?

  I think no matter what money would go back to the branch. I didn't realize much of the building material was donated by other groups. I wonder if they knew it only went to JW's or if they even cared.

  Its amazing how the branch will "take advantage of Satans system of things" whenever they get the chance.
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  -

  After Katrina I led a crew of men and women who helped refurbish a school in Slidell Louisiana.

  Lake Pontchartrain had wiped part of the city off the map. Devastation was horrible. Dead fish everywhere. Black water everywhere. There was miles and miles of this.

  We had to bring our own living quarters, food, water, medical supplies and more. We worked two weeks on that school and saved one entire wing from demolition.

  Across the street lived a JW. Her house was built on a knoll and had survived flood water but not the winds. While we worked on the school there was a Watchtower relief crew repairing and renovating her home. Their work was complete in less than a week.

  After her house was repaired the woman visited us asking about our work on the school. She wanted to know what we were charging. We all recoiled at the notion. She was surprised to learn we were not invoicing the school system under its insurance. She told us her renovation cost 25 thousand. My fellow crew members were much surprised. She said, “Well, I wasn’t given an invoice. But I was informed that a commensurate donation expected for JWs who wanted to remain in good standing with 'the church'."

  She had no idea of my religious history, and I didn’t care to go into it. She was such a lovely older lady. Her kindness toward us was much appreciated.

  Watchtower leverages catastrophes into money-making machines. For Watchtower a natural catastrophe is little more than another cow to milk.

  Marvin Shilmer