Proper understanding of the Mediator & New Covenant

by Crazyguy 18 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy

    MEDIATOR and the New Covenant

    The Society has taught that only the 144,000 are to par-take of the emblems and Jesus only mediates and died for them.

    "He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members. " Worldwide Security Under the "Prince of Peace" (1986) pp.10-11

    Likewise, the Greater Moses, "Jesus knew that he was going to purchase these anointed ones with his own blood, so he fittingly referred to them collectively as his slave." Watchtower 1993 May 1 p.16

    Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members." Worldwide Security Under the "Prince of Peace" pp.10-11

    "Is Jesus the "mediator" only for anointed Christians? ... So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the "mediator" only for anointed Christians ." Watchtower 1979 Apr 1 p.31

    ? Is Jesus the “mediator” only for anointed Christians?

    The term “mediator” occurs just six times in the Christian Greek Scriptures and Scripturally is always used regarding a formal covenant.

    Moses was the “mediator” of the Law covenant made between God and the nation of Israel. (Gal. 3:19, 20) Christ, though, is the “mediator of a new covenant” between Jehovah and spiritual Israel, the “Israel of God” that will serve as kings and priests in heaven with Jesus. (Heb. 8:6; 9:15; 12:24; Gal. 6:16) At a time when God was selecting those to be taken into that new covenant, the apostle Paul wrote that Christ was the “one mediator between God and men.” (1 Tim. 2:5) Reasonably Paul was here using the word “mediator” in the same way he did the other five times, which occurred before the writing of 1 Timothy 2:5, referring to those then being taken into the new covenant for which Christ is “mediator.” So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the “mediator” only for anointed Christians.

    The new covenant will terminate with the glorification of the remnant who are today in that covenant mediated by Christ. The “great crowd” of “other sheep” that is forming today is not in that new covenant. However, by their associating with the “little flock” of those yet in that covenant they come under benefits that flow from that new covenant. During the millennium Jesus Christ will be their king, high priest and judge. For more detailed information, see AidtoBibleUnderstanding, pages 1129 and 1130 under “Mediator”; also God’s“EternalPurpose”NowTriumphingforMan’sGood, page 160, paragraph 10; also TheWatchtower issues of February 15, 1966, pages 105 through 123; November 15, 1972, pages 685 and 686, under the subheading “Leading the Way to a New Covenant”; and April 1, 1973, pages 198 and 199, under the subheading “The New Covenant.” WT. 1979 4/1 pg.31

    Is this correct since the bible seems to clearly state otherwise?

    John 3: 16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.

    1 Timothy 2;5,6 'For there is one God and one mediator between God and humanity, Christ Jesus, himself human, who gave himself-a ransom for all,

    Hebrews 9;28, Acts 13;38-39, Romans 3;21-25 Hebrews 7;25-27

    So I attempted to find the correct understanding behind this teaching and if this is correct and here is what I found. I went to their CD library and looked at all their info about the subject and then researched even more since this opens up a can of worms. First I searched under the heading of 'Mediator' , then the term 'spiritual Israel' , 'Israel of god ', 'New Covenant', 'little flock', etc., etc.

    One way I could compare their understanding and its accuracy is to compare the New Covenant with that of the Old Covenant [Hebrews 9;14,15] [Ga. 3;26] made with Israel after they had just been delivered out of Egypt. This is what they say about 'house of Israel'-'Israel of god' and 'the spiritual Israel'.

    Wt 1979 Nov 15 th pg27

    MEDIATOR”TOHOWMANY?

    11 However, was God making the new covenant with the natural, fleshly “house of Israel” and the natural, fleshly “house of Judah”? How could that be possible, inasmuch as the natural Jews of those two houses had violently rejected the prospective Mediator of that new covenant and were, as a nation, celebrating the Pentecostal festival on the appointed day at the temple in Jerusalem? God could not do so. He had in mind to conclude the new covenant with the newly born Christian Israel, the spiritual Israel, it having its birth on that very Pentecostal day when the “holy spirit fell upon” the baptized disciples of Jesus Christ, about 120 of them. (Acts 11:15) These had waited, not at the temple, but in an upper room in Jerusalem. There those disciples, already immersed in water, were begotten by God’s spirit to become his spiritual children, “the Israel of God.” As such they were introduced into the new covenant through the heavenly Mediator, Jesus Christ, the Prophet greater than Moses.—Acts 2:1-36; Joel 2:28, 29; John 3:3, 5; Gal. 6:16.

    Jehovah rejected the literal nation of Israel Jer. 31;35-37 so the terms listed above in my understanding, is just used to describe the new Spiritual Nation, 'Israel of God' of people that are not literally of one race or a literal nation. Rom 9;6-8 Ephesian.2;19-21 Ga 6;16

    The Society then infers now or at one time, that the 'other-sheep' or 'great crowd' is not of the 'Israel of God' or spiritual Israel but alien residents.

    "They recognize that they are not spiritual Israelites in the new covenant mediated by Jesus Christ, nor part of the "chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation."-1 Pet. 2:9. Yet they do benefit from the operation of the new covenant. They benefit from this just as, in ancient Israel, the "alien resident" benefited from residing in among the Israelites who were in the Law covenant.-Ex. 20:10; Le. 19:10, 33, 34; Rev. 7:9-15. To keep in relationship with "our Savior, God," the "great crowd" needs to remain united with the remnant of spiritual Israelites." Watchtower 1979 Nov 15 p.27 Benefiting from "One Mediator Between God and Men"

    "Since a number of these faithful foreigners, or alien residents, are viewed as foreshadowing the great crowd today, their situation is of interest to us. 13 Such ones were proselytes, dedicated worshipers of Jehovah under the Mosaic Law who were separated from the nations along with the Israelites. (Leviticus 24:22) They offered sacrifices, kept clear of false worship, and abstained from blood, just as the Israelites did." Watchtower 1995 Jul 1 p.17 "The Israel of God" and the "Great Crowd"

    Worldwide security 1986 pg10 18 In ancient times, there were non-Jews, such as the Nethinim and the sons of non-Israelite servants of Solomon, who were associated with the nation of Israel. (Ezra 2:43-58; 8:17-20) Similarly today, there are men and women who are wholly dedicated to God through Jesus Christ but who are not spiritual Israelite s. They are, however, associated with the remnant of spiritual Israel because of dedicating themselves to Jehovah God through Jesus Christ, “who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all.” (1 Timothy 2:6) Today, these far outnumber the 144,000 spiritual Israelite s, who are to inherit the heavenly Kingdom.

    But if you go back and look at the old law arrangement the Aliens Resident could par-take during the passover and live under the old covenant they just had to first be circumcised and then agree to live by the rules of the law. Exodus 12;48

    They the Society even confirm this.

    "The terms of the Law covenant allowed for persons of all national backgrounds to come into membership of the congregation of Israel by accepting the true worship of Jehovah and becoming circumcised The alien resident who had become a circumcised worshiper was bound to one law with the Israelites, that is, to obey all the terms of the Law covenant." Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 1 p.72 Alien Resident

    As I research even more, another understanding that the Society seems to have concerning only the Anointed to par-take was their thought that Jesus made a covenant with the apostles for a kingdom and to be joint heirs with him to be priests and kings.

    Wt. 1985 2/15?

    9 There is something else that should not be overlooked. Jesus discussed two related covenants with his disciples, “the new covenant” and ‘a covenant for a kingdom.’ (Luke 22:20, 28-30) Both covenants had to do with the partakers’ being in line to share as priests and kings with Christ Jesus. But in Israel no circumcised alien resident could ever become a priest or a king. In this respect, also, we find a distinction between the Passover feast in Israel and the Lord’s Evening Meal.

    Is this incorrect? If you look at Luke 22;28-30 this discussion with the apostles about a kingdom for them was at a different time and after the discussion about the New Covenant. Also this discussion for a kingdom is also discussed in Matthew 19;27-30 and Luke 12;32 showing it was discussed at even an earlier time altogether before the New Covenant meal. The Greek words [diatithemai, dietheto] used in the verse Luke 28;29 do not mean covenant, but the more accurate words in English is appoint or promise and this is what other bible translations use. [realized this using my new bible app.] So this later discussion is not about the New Covenant at all as it would seem, its a promise made by Jesus and does not need to be mediated.

    The Society also likes to use the statement 'other-sheep' to show another group and to separate the groups into two, 144k class [going to heaven] and then the rest of us. But is this correct, because if you look at when Jesus was talking about this 'other-sheep' he had not mentioned or promised the kingdom yet to his apostles.

    G oing back to John 9:40 you'll see that his discussion of the sheep started with a question that was asked by the Pharisees ('But when some of the Pharisees who were with him heard this, they asked, We aren't blind also, are we? ' Now, Jesus obviously didn't mean that the Pharisees were in this fold [pen] if it meant a destiny of heavenly life. So, it is clear that the true meaning of his illustration was that the first fold [pen] represented an entire group, among whom the Pharisees were included. So logically he was actually talking about the coming gentiles and how they would soon enter the same flock. Again John 10:16 he says 'one flock, one Shepard' Ephesians 2;11-22 and 3;6 Heb.2;11-22 Gal 3;8

    And look at all the scriptures that could be prophesying to the coming of the gentiles..... Psalms 22:27....86:9 Isaiah 2:2....11:10 ...49:6 Haggai 2:7 Zechariah 8:23

    The Society also likes to quote. 1Peter 2;9 'But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy-nation but look at these similarities Exodus 19;6 'And you yourselves will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy-nation'. These are the words that you are to say to the sons of Israel. And we know from other scriptures that the literal nation of Israel was also a chosen race.

    The last subject I could find was the society mentioned in an article [below] that since he told them they were to drink the wine meaning his blood that again it was reserved for just the anointed. The Scripture does not imply drinking the blood but rather it symbolizes a pouring out as a sacrifice. Luke 22;20 Matt. 26; 26-28 Asv. Esv. Niv.

    Wt 1985 2/15? the other sheep and the lords evening meal

    8 Nevertheless, the Passover was not strictly a type of the Lord’s Evening Meal. Why not? When the Passover was instituted in Egypt, the flesh of the roasted lamb was eaten, but none of the blood of the Passover lamb was eaten. In contrast, however, when Jesus instituted the Memorial of his death he specifically instructed those then present to eat his flesh and drink his blood, symbolized by the bread and the wine. (Exodus 12:7, 8; Matthew 26:27, 28) In this very important aspect—the blood—the Passover was not a type of the Lord’s Evening Meal.

    Sons of God

    Then the question arises, 'Aren't just those who are chosen for heavenly life the sons of God?' Well, notice what Paul wrote about who the true sons of God are:

    Galatians 3:26-29, 'The fact is; You're all sons of God because of your faith in the Anointed Jesus. All who were baptized into the Anointed One have put on the Anointed One. So, there aren't any Jews or Greeks, slaves or freemen, males or females, because you're all united in the Anointed Jesus. And if you're [part] of the Anointed One, you're really the seed of Abraham and heirs of the promise.'

    Then John wrote a 1 John 5:1, 'Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Anointed One has been fathered by God.'

    So, regardless of what some may teach;

    • If we have faith in Jesus, we are God's sons

    • When we are baptized into Jesus, we become the seed of Abraham and heirs of the promise

    Are there any that claim to be Christians who would deny faith in Jesus? We would hope not.

    One other note Romans 8:14-17 is used by the Society to denote the idea that the heirs are also heirs of Christ and then are going to heaven, only heaven. But if you look at the scriptures especially 17 it doesn’t seem to say this;

    1. For all who are led by the spirit of God are sons of God. 15.For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, 'Abba! Father!' 16.The spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs-heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

      Verse 17 seems to indicate a condition to be joint heirs with Christ, Provided we suffer with him.

    Romans 3:31, 4:16-23, 5:18, 18-26

    If we look at the old covenant its seems clear , Aaron was the high priest, Moses was the mediator, Jesus replaced them both. The offspring of Aaron and Moses were to be the high-priests of the inner sanctuary and were referred to as the Anointed [Exodus 29;29] and were to be in the inner temple and attend to all the issues of the inner-temple. The Anointed represent the high priests. The Levite’s which were not the offspring of Moses and Aaron were similar to that of the faithful and discreet slave by teaching and administrating [judges] the law. All Israel including circumcised alien residents were to par-take at passover. If they did not bad things would happen to them.

    Just like Israel under the original law we as a people that except Jesus

    as our messiah and get baptized [may replace circumcision] we all become one Spiritual Nation, Israel of God and all must, like Jesus says par-take of the emblems to show appreciation for what he did and receive life. [John 6;51] The Levites were not separate of Israel and neither are we separate from the One Flock. Jesus was a ransom for all. john 6;48-56 1corth 11;24-26 Hebrews 9;14-18 acts 13;38-39 Romans 3;21-30 Hebrews 7;25-27 1 Tim. 2;5 acts 2;38

    According to John 6; 53-54 Jesus says 'unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you do not have life in yourselves. Anyone who eats My flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day,'.

    Questions to consider.

    Why under the old law there were provisions for alien residents and foreigners but under the New Covenant according to the Society, there are none?

    Did Jesus really die for only 144,000 people does this make any sense?

    Jeremiah 31:33, 34:

    For this is the covenant that I shall conclude with the house of Israel after those days,” is the utterance of Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I shall write it. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people.”

    “And they will no more teach each one his companion and each one his brother, saying, ‘KNOW Jehovah!’ for they will all of them know me, from the least one of them even to the greatest one of them,” is the utterance of Jehovah. “For I shall forgive their error, and their sin I shall remember no more.”


    My questions for all who reject the New Covenant as it applies to replacing the Old Covenant is this: “How are you to be released from the Old Covenant if you haven’t accepted the New Covenant? How are you to have Jehovah’s law within your heart so as to become ‘my people’ with respect to the New Covenant?

    Why under the old law, all of Israel was included but the New Covenant only the priestly class?

    Matt. 19;28 says 'they will judge the twelve tribes of Israel', if only they themselves are Israel of God then are they judging themselves??? Also look at 1peter 4;17

    Where in the bible does it say that association with the anointed is what leads to our relationship with god?

  • prologos
    prologos

    most important too is that the 12 tribes of the israel of God as recorded in Rev.7 are BIGGER than the 144 k. there are more spiritual Israelites than the 12x 10 000 of Re.7 &14.

    you are right the confuse the Kingdom and New Covenants.

    and gamble peoples lives with that shamble.

    There must be a better, simpler way, than believing in all these questionable stories and their wrong interpretations.

  • QC
    QC

    You are on the right track. All true disciples of Jesus are "spirit anointed." Read comments by QC here and comments by Bobcat here.

  • ÁrbolesdeArabia
    ÁrbolesdeArabia

    It's easy to understand when you allow the Bible to speak for itself. Allowing men to say Romans through Revelation is not applicable for the "Great Crowd" is suicide. It's plain as Vanilla Ice Cream, Paul confirms Jesus statment in John chapter 3, we must become "born again" to enter the Kingdom of God. "Flesh and blood can't enter into the Kingdom Of God, and still JWs don't realize there is only two choices, God's Kingdom to enter or Satan's which leads to death!

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    CrazyGuy:

    In the end, all the cross referencing, which is great when you can begin to sort it out from the 'doctrines of men,' but it all leads back to the simplicity of the Beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount:

    Matthew 5:3, 5, 8, 9

    3 "Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.

    5 "Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.

    8 "Happy are the pure in heart, since they will see God.

    9 "Happy are the peaceable, since they will be called ‘sons of God.'

    In Matthew, "Kingdom of the heavens/God" generally equates with the blessings and rule by God under the New Covenant. Interestingly, the Beatitudes (5:3-10) are framed by saying that to [such ones] 'the kingdom of the heavens belong.' (vs. 3, 10)

    (And QC I haven't forgot you on the other thread about Satan falling. I'm kinda in 'aftermath' mode at the moment.)

    Take Care

  • Rattigan350
    Rattigan350

    I wish this topic would stop surfacing when it need not.

    Moses was the mediator of a covenant between Jehovah God and the 12 tribes of Israel. Those not born in

    Israel, couldn't change that fact by their arguing doctrine.

    That forshadowed how Jesus would be mediator between Jehovah God and a new nation of Israel. A spiritual nation of Israel.

    That was also 12 tribes and totals 144,000. Those not born into that nation can't change that by arguing doctrine.

    So what's the point of arguing?

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    Rattigan said, " A spiritual nation of Israel... totals 144,000. Those not born into that nation can't change that by arguing doctrine. "

    I am just curious. Who do you believe this is? Not judging, just curious.

  • prologos
    prologos

    Rattigan 350: question please: Where did you get the WRONG idea that the Israel of GOD are 12 tribes of 12 000 each? Rev. 7:1-4-8? then:

    please read again without wt glasses:

    The 144 000 -- COME OUT OF-- the 12 tribes.

    The twelve tribes are LARGER than 144 k just as Israel was MORE NUMEROUS than its first-born or the tribe of LEVI and JUDAH.

    The law (old) covenant was made with all of Israel, the new Covenant is with ALL OF the ISRAEL of GOD not just the birst fruits bought FROM the Earth.

    Answer this question too please: Who were those of the 12 tribes that were not sealed by the angels? what has the WT society "consistently taught" are the total 12 tribes? not earthly. ?.

    what is the difference between the New and Kingdom covenant?

    In other words: according to all wt writings,

    There are 24 tribes of the ISRAEL OF GOD, the 12 heavenly tribes and the 12 earthly tribes. its true, research it. you know thats wrong.

    try this: all members of the Israel of God are in the new covenant, but not all are in the Kingdom/priest for 1000year covenant.

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    Crazyguy,

    How can you have 2 classes of domestics?? One for which Christ is the mediator, and one for which Christ is not the mediator???

  • daringhart13
    daringhart13

    Summed up with a very simple, straightforward comment:

    "......he died for ALL men...."

    Not much wiggle room there......

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