IT IS NOT A CULT!!

by Butterflyleia85 31 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Your friend's reaction is typical and really why I don't waste my time in trying to help JW's to see that Watchtower is a cult.

  I almost never use the word "cult" by itself because it even provokes arguments among ex-JW's. I personally think that all variations of religion start as cults.

  CULT: A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

  Once it gets big, a group ceases being a cult, according to that.

  The common definition used today of a cult focuses on the "strange" or "sinister" part. JW's cannot see the sinister part and all religions are strange. They even use that strangeness to recruit- "They all got the Bible wrong except for us."

  So I use the full term "Dangerous Mind-Control Cult" to describe Watchtower. That takes the emphasis right where it needs to be, on the dangerous mind-control. Even there, I don't bother saying that to JW's who aren't ready to hear it. But just saying they are a "high-control" group almost sounds like flattery. I can even hear a reply: "Well, maybe we need high control to survive Satan's world."

  It isn't their strange beliefs we are combatting. Hell, we have strange beliefs among us. It's the removal of members' ability to think for themselves we combat.
• 

  Finkelstein

  The importance isn't what you call or describe this organization, its the fact of realizing the corruption within it and its expressed

  doctrines with the many perilous damages it actually causes people.

  This was a religious publishing house, which eventually and gradually turned into organization structured religion.

  An important fact when analyzing this organization.
• 

  *lost*

  I too thought it was the safest place in the world. I had no idea what was really going on ... things that happened years and years ago, if only we had this back then hey ? wouldn't our lives be different. It was only a few weeks ago I found out all these things. I by chance followed a trail. Thank God I did.

  To find out it is something so grotesque and twisted when you thought it was the purest, truest, safest thing in the world, is shattering.

  I too hate using and seeing the word 'cult'. i know it is the correct terminology ..... but i think it is just to harsh sounding. It needs to be something, some key word, that is 'GENTLER'

  It's like we are dealing with children.

  Today I did some basic reading on wiki.Followed a simple trail. It went like this.

  Arianism

  Jehovahs Witness

  Millennialism

  Zoroastrianism - also called, MAZDAISM and MAGIANISM. It is an ''Ancient Iranian Religion'' and a ''Religious Philosophy''. Once the state religion of the first Persian Empire. Over 1.000 yrs bc, a religious philosopher , Zoroaster simplified the pantheon of early Iranian gods, into two opposing forces which were in conflict. His ideas led to a formal religion and have influenced other later religions - judaism, gnosticism. christianity and islam.

  First Persian Empire

  Achaemenid Empire

  Median Confederation

  Mesopotamia

  That's as far as I have got and I'm going to reasearch every stage of development.

  I have not noticed in this chain, one mention of the masoretic text or masorites, which I am sure wt used (years ago ) in their literature when I first studied, to back up some of the claims they make abotu bible and truth. I have to check on that.

  if anyone can add to it I would be grateful.

  Thrilled to be doing all this research, never did it beore ... too afraid .. .lol

  lost
• 

  ÁrbolesdeArabia

  Cult's sell you dates Jesus is going to come back to Earth like 1914, 1925 and my favorite of all 1975 when my friends sold all their goods and gave the money to the W.T.S. because they were going to pioneer. The W.T.S. policy of "NO REFUNDS!!!!" for defective dates and goods sold, caused them to leave holding a wet-papper bag!
• 

  nonjwspouse

  Lost, check out Miller, Smith, and Adventeists.
• 

  talesin

  IT IS NOT A CULT~!

  thank you for your public service announcement ... regular programming will resume immediately after this scheduled message...

  LMFAO!

  tal
• 

  Butterflyleia85

  Ablebodiedman Interesting I will have to look that up... I think I've heard that mentioned before that some felt the internet was the connection of communication throughout the world was prophesied in the bible.
  Problemaddict Yeah I usually just use the word control group when I am around JWs but when I'm talking to exJWs I getta let it all hang out and express my inter most thoughts.
  Dismissing servant IT's so crazy to think that yeah in my past I was like that too... I can't imagine it now and sometimes I forget... really was I truly that haughty and that arrogant??
  *lost*... awww I think it took me two years to get where you were. And in the middle of my research I opened my mouth to wide and well now my sister shuns me and most of my old JW friends... see it's ok to be DFed and a little lost but talking "apostate stuff" will get you cut off for sure. I defiantly will keep all this research to yourself til you have concluded on your beliefs and what kind of relationship you want with your family and friends. This is for you not anyone else. For me it was hard to see that I needed to fully help myself before I tried to help anyone else, like my family members... I felt I could trust them and they would never shun me but boy was I wrong. Thank goodness I never said anything to my friends or I would have lost the whole liter. It is like we are dealing with children the most variable and sensitive of kind. They scare away so easily and some never will come back to you and respond at all. It truly hurts... but like children they don't know any better they just doing what they think is best.
  Outsmartthesystem yes very true. I must have been further along in my exit because I was excited when I first opened Crises of Conscience.
  Punkofnice Well she said that because a friend of ours on FB (I will name her Cris) is posting stuff like crazy offending her and a lot of their friends... (I'm like rooting over here for Cris though in my head lol cause I had no clue she was so open towards sharing the negatives about the JWs, I do add comments to her posts, mine usually being the only one, saying yellp...) Anyways there is a lot of youtubes about pedophiles being protected by the governing body and such and well Jehovah's witnesses around here find it really hard to believe this would go on. I'm sure my Aunt probably told my child hood story as an example as well as my cousin's story ( will call her B)... we both had been molested and the pedophiles were in everyone's eyes (Jehovah's Witnesses' eyes that is) dealt with. My case was the first case that central area of our state was dealing with. My father was sent to jail. My cousin B's case never came out and well her Uncle molested her but then he past away and then it all came out. So any who... my mother called it a sign from God when a Watchtower article came out next month after the incident about sexual abuse. Coincidentally I'm disfellowshipped and so is my cousin B. I guess our child hood got to us when we were older... Come to find out my other cousin (I will call her J) was molested by her father too. And well thank goodness she was never baptized cause I bet that screwed with her a bet and well she would have been DFed too (those are just my thoughts though... it just seems like lil girls getting messed with leads to bad behavior when they are adults). And wanna hear the crazy part... our sick selfish dads are STILL JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES yeah they went to jail but my father never got DFed and my cousin J's dad did get DFed but that was because he was getting hand jobs by her and more (those are her words of the incident when I asked what he did to her exactly,.... Why do I ask, it was hard to hear for sure). Now would that be a story to tell her.... But I think I will hold off on telling her my family's dark secret. She probably wouldn't believe me and if she asked my cousins... they might be offended I was telling people about it. I'm not ashamed about my incident but I'm not sure how they would feel.
  Iamallcool Ha yelp! And then when your JW family comes over to visit we have to tuck away those out bursts don't we.
  Aww thanks Flipper! Tell your wife hi too!! Well I come to see now that really she was baptized and has been disfellowshipped before and reinstated, I guess to she has been warned about being friends with me on FB and well now she wants to meet with me and "discuss this stuff". Yikes, you remember my post about my sister and how that all turned out well... I nervous I don't wanna say the wrong thing and make her feel uncomfortable. I really don't wanna "discuss this stuff" but wish I could turn her to all you guys and let her get the information she needs from the right sources. She's a stay at home mom too like me with to kiddos, so I'm guessing her time is free on her terms...(but busy crazy at the same time so not too much reading involved, or digging, and nothing that would scare her away to soon) So yes you are right .... But how do I say that to her?
  I quit! The second sentence should read: "Be like me. Be gullible." Ha yelp.
  LV101 agree... I can say I been there done that
  Oubliette hahaha... and now I will have to go see the Hamlet play.
  Mum, I'm sorry about your brother in law's mother's death. My mother side of the family is more open and not so haughty about shunning and such, but my father side is so strict and harsh... I dealt with both sides of the matter. I can see how your brother in law was very offended by his own brother and sister in law and why he would act that way toward any JW that would ever try to come his way. My husband is like that, his not a JW, never heard of the religion til I came around and will he still is trying to ajust to understanding why they think shunning would help a person especially treating their own family in such a matter. I just let do my best at making the JW family sound arrogant as much as possible and that how they are treating me... that I use to be the same way toward others... they don't know any better. And then he not so snobbish when they come to visit my kids. (my father side has yet to see any of my kids... my father came to see my oldest (who is 2) at 1 ½ years old for the first time... my husband joked and said "think his going to wait til our lil girl (2mth old) is 2 years old as well" ha)
  sd-7 HAHAHAHA I SHOULD HAVE SAID THAT!! HAHAHA (Darn it if only I was witty as you)
  Aww yes, Balsam, I did too! I have left full mentally and all, it's just when I get confronted with this kinda stuff with family (mostly) and well I guess now friends, proving ‘what the world has to offer' versus ‘what JWs offer them' in their state of mind, makes me swallow hard... if you know what I mean. Like really do I have to explain myself just so you will not think I'm the crazy one here that needs to be shunned. I mostly worry about saying to much to soon. I lost my sister that way. I want her to find this all on her own really and not get to excited and feed her everything. Would printing her out a few articles to look at help? She wants to meet and discuss all this stuff (another Hugh shocker to me). I have COC book, Captive Mind, Steven Hassen Books... would it be to much to soon show her or ask her if she wants to see them or barrow them??
  Finkelstein, ‘You could even go as far as calling it a corrupt religious dictatorship.' nicely said. And yes, I remember researching how the religion began... so how does knowing it evolved from being a publishing paper company (if I remember correctly along with your comment helps jog alittle of my memory from research) to a religious organization make it an ‘important fact'? What's the answer to your riddle I must say it's been about a year since I research... all I wanted was proof to my questions, doesn't mean I memorized them though. Next time though when I go back to through I will write this stuff down and keep it in an alphabet folder and call it "Why I won't go back to JW and what I believe now" HA
  OnTheWayOut, yes I learned along time ago how it offended me... I remember it was AllTimeJeff that said it was a high control group and that's what calmed me down from getting all defensive. I still can't stand non JW that never been JWs saying it lol kinda like how a black person doesn't want to hear white people say the N word. Ha And yeah we do all have strange beliefs and yes that the KEY I need to remember to emphasized to my mother next time, the ability to think for themselves is what we need to saver. God gave us this brain that we hold in our own heads why would we allow other humans to rule it. Nice research ... I wonder how to aproach my friend though, she wants to meet and "discuss this stuff".
  ÁrbolesdeArabia, yeah they feed their humble ones crap and then call it new light.
  Talesin Haha Your welcome Hope you enjoyed the exciting announcement that just put my hairs standing on end. Ha
• 

  Butterflyleia85

  After private messaging her about her post she sent this message to me on FB...

  Thank you {my name} !!!! I truly appreciate you coming to me like this!!! Its why I am still friends with you . You are not using Facebook to hurt anyone but to talk with others that "get you" or " get what you are saying" .
  {Our FB friend that is not baptised but was raised a JW I think I will have to ask her and see} has been malicious and actually lied about treatment against her from family and friends. Most JW friends of hers removed themselves as friends or she removed them. I mean its easy to see why. Gosh this why I'm friends with you I've known some of your family FOREVER lol I admit I've been warned but I told them you've never really posted things like she has . I think I remember one time a year ago or more about how you hated growing up about holidays and such. ME I've never understood this thing about holidays or birthdays. Still to this day not even for a religious reason I will not and are not going to do them. Religious I've done my research from a non witness way (they don't like it but oh we'll) I think Easter & Christmas is the holidays that disgust and bother me. The ONLY reason Christmas exists is basically Roman Catholics didn't want "bad people" having orgies under the new moon I think the new moon and it was made into a Christian holiday!!!! Now atheists take part in it THAT bothers me. WHY does getting together and giving each other gifts have to be called "Christmas " if it isn't about Jesus at all. Gosh I actually would just want to sit and talk with you like meet up let the big kids play and bebe's entertain us and just maybe talk about this stuff??? You and I both been disfellowshipped and I feel we know better at how each other feel unlike someone who wants attention asking for ones to say mean things on purpose . Why this person HAS to do it I do not know. But let's try to get together that is IF you want too? I wouldn't mind a drive to {where I use to live, I will have to let her know don't live there anymore} !!
• 

  ÁrbolesdeArabia

  Let's make them a deal, when they stop using the hate speech and abusive terms they connotate from Apostate, we can call them a "compound of men" or Unitarian Sect break-away!

  There is no evidence from the Holy Bible the term Apostate applies to dissidents of a man made organization. Prove this from the Bible and back it up with scholars who know the etiology of the Greek and Hebrew words.

  I am tired of the Watchtower Writer's "Seven Year Doctrine Itch!", let's buy the GB some Prep-H to stop their itching and keep their hands from pulling new light out of their ass!
• 

  Butterflyleia85

  ha yeah arbolesdearabia, they can call names so easly but when it comes to calling them a cult they get so defiencive. you said their is no evidence the term applies to 'dissisent's of a man made organization', where do they get the term from and it's definision and what is the correct use of apostates.