"Apostasy took root and flourished" (WT, July 15, 2013, page 18)

by Doug Mason 28 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Doug Mason

  “However, once the last of the apostles died, the apostasy took root and flourished during a long growing season that lasted for many centuries. Additionally, during that time, the weeds became many and the blades of wheat were few. There was no consistent, organized channel for dispensing spiritual food.” (The Watchtower, July 15, 2013, page 18)

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  The decision about which writings would make up the Christian Scriptures was not agreed on until the 4th century CE. The decisions were made by the majority of the fathers of the Western Church, driven by the emperors of Rome at the time.

  The WTS accepts the list of books that this majority Church and the Roman Emperors decided on. Does the WT say that these religious Councils of the 4th century and their Roman emperors were anointed by the spirit when they made their decision, or do they go by their dictum that: “once the last of the apostles died, the apostasy took root and flourished”?

  What does the WTS say of those Jews who decided on the list of writings that would be considered to be their Scripture? That process took many centuries as well, possibly not finishing earlier than the first century CE but most likely centuries later. Were these Jews also spirit-anointed members of a “consistent, organized channel for dispensing spiritual food”? If not, why then does the WTS accept the outcomes of their centuries of deliberations?

  It is now known that these 4th century Christian Church Fathers made mistakes, as several of theNT writings were prepared long after the supposed Apostle had died. Will the WTS be consistent and resurrect all writings from that period and make their own decisions on which writings to accept as Scripture (including those not currently part of the NT Canon) and which to reject, such as those falsely attributed to an Apostle, including 2 Thessalonians, Colossians, Ephesians, the Pastorals, 1 and 2 Peter?

  It would be most interesting if the WTS recognised the historical unreliability of the book of Acts, since the WTS relies on the mythical Council at Jerusalem of Acts 15 and on their interpretation on “blood” that was supposedly made by that Council.

  Doug
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  Mum

  So, there was a great "apostasy" in the first century? This assertion reminds me of a passage in 1984 where Winston (or his tormentors) make the observation that those who control the present control the past. I have not heard of this "apostasy" from any other source.

  IMHO, they are drawing a parallel between the first century and the present to get the publishers to believe there has always been "apostasy" and they'll ride it out.

  Who knows?
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  Julia Orwell

  "Who controls the past controls the present. Who controls the present controls the future."
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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  This is one of the great contradictions of Watchtower reasoning.

  Watchtower considers the fourth century Church as most notable under the label "apostate" Christianity. Yet, at the same time WT accepts the Bible canon that same church agreed upon and established as our Bible.

  So, if that church was truly "apostate", then the WT should have nothing to do with any Holy Book that church approved of and compiled; if the church was pure enough for god to allow it to take on this task, then WT would have no right to villify that same church. In effect, they'd be casting doubt on god's arrangement, wouldn't they?

  What of the other rejected books? The church rejected books such as the gospel of Judas, gospel of Thomas, etc. Many of these rejected writings were found in the same baskets in the same cave at the Dead Sea as the books that were accepted. Why? It had everything to do with what had become popularly accepted Christian tradition by the fourth century, not what was necessarily the most accurate or true. The Church had the power to decide what was accepted or rejected, and the church went with popular sentiment and what wouldn't rock the boat of tradition.

  The WT used the same reasoning to justify the New World Translation. It claimed that ALL Bible translations had become so corrupt that a new translation was necessary to correct the massive error. This begs the question: wouldn't this call into question God's power and ability to preserve his own Word? If he couldn't preserve his own word up to the 20th century, then how can it be argued the WT Society would fair any better, with or without god's direction?

  Oh what tangled webs WT weaves...
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  barry

  The books of the bible were decided and we have the first list about 370ad at the time of the secound ecumenical council when the trinity doctrine was decided on.

  The books of the bible were chosen Matthew to hebrews and revelation was the last to be accepted because some people didn't believe it was written by john. Some books were rejected such as 'the shepherd ' written by a man named Hermas a cousin to the pope.
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  villagegirl

  "The WTS accepts the list of books that this majority Church and the Roman Emperors decided on. Does the WT say that these religious Councils of the 4th century and their Roman emperors were anointed by the spirit when they made their decision, or do they go by their dictum that: “once the last of the apostles died, the apostasy took root and flourished”?

  Good Point. here again the weakness of the argument in which they try to establish themselves

  as emerging in the 20th century as the:

  "sole channel of communication between God and mankind"

  The WT has always maintained, for 100 years, that there was a consistant thread

  of Christians representing "true religion" or their version: "faithful and discreet slave"

  I use this term FDS knowing it is a construct of the WT

  and has no real meaning in the sense they use it.

  The so called apocryphal books , used by Eastern Orthodax,

  Ethiopian Orthodox, Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church,

  Beta Israel, Seventh Day Adventists contain a more authentic collections

  than the limited choices chosen by the Catholic Councils.

  The book of Enoch is quoted by Jude and yet the book of Enoch

  is not included in the canon.

  The Watchtower is actually a mainstream church becuase

  it uses only Protestant Reformation Bible books.

  And rejects more ancient canons.

  The idea that God abandoned mankind until the appearance

  of the "anointed" in 1919 is so absurd and arrogant and twisted it is a heresy.

  The idea that only certain people can recieve the

  baptism of holy spirit promised by Christ to all is also a heresy.

  The Catholics are now closer

  to the truth than the Watchtower.
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  Newly Enlightened

  ADCMS is correct. I'm reading the Gospel of Thomas right now and the forward clearly says that book or Gospel was the first written and is older than the traditional Gospels. So why reject and Gospel of Thomas that they claim the other 4 gospels were apparently taken from? I did notice that the scriptures with the wheat & weeds 'parable' is not really written like a parable in Thomas. Thom 1:21 "Mary said to Jesus: Who are your disciples like? He said: They are like little children who are living in a field that is not theirs..... [Yeah, I know I did a ...] "Therefore I say, if the owner of the house knows that the thief is coming, he will be alert before he arrives and will not him to dig through into his house to carry away his belongings. You, must be on guard and beware of the world [system]. Prepare yourself with great strength or the bandits will find a way to reach you, for the problems you expect will come. Let there be among you a person of understanding. When the crop ripened, he came quickly with his sickle in his hand to reap. Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear!" Gospel of Judas, that the WT just recently totally discredited, states that Jesus knew who his betrayer would be. John 6:64 But there are some of YOU that do not believe.” For from [the] beginning Jesus knew who were the ones not believing and who was the one that would betray him. Ps 41:9 Also the man at peace with me, in whom I trusted, Who was eating my bread, has magnified [his] heel against me. If WTBT$ was to accept these rejected books it would totally throw their doctrines & beliefs out the window.
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  Tiktaalik

  Nice one Julia!

  Rage Against The Machine - "Testify"

  Who controls the past now controls the future

  Who controls the present now controls the past

  Who controls the past now controls the future

  Who controls the present now?
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  ÁrbolesdeArabia

  Do you think there is something wrong with a congregation that spawned six apostates in one year? Nobody in the Kingdom Hall knew any of the other brothers and sisters were turning against the Watchtower. When I say nobody, not even the other apostates suspected the other members of their Hall to leave! Is this a problem with the Congregation or Watchtower, what are the odds of six different people who had no knowledge the other apostates were leaving all left?
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  alecholmesthedetective

  “However, once the last of the apostles died, the apostasy took root and flourished during a long growing season that lasted for many centuries.

  The decision about which writings would make up the Christian Scriptures was not agreed on until the 4th century CE. The decisions were made by the majority of the fathers of the Western Church, driven by the emperors of Rome at the time.

  What does the WTS say of those Jews who decided on the list of writings that would be considered to be their Scripture? That process took many centuries as well, possibly not finishing earlier than the first century CE but most likely centuries later.

  Watchtower considers the fourth century Church as most notable under the label "apostate" Christianity. Yet, at the same time WT accepts the Bible canon that same church agreed upon and established as our Bible.

  So, the bible canon was chosen...BY APOSTATES!!!

  Alec