Why isn't anyone on JWN invited to the Facebook discussion by AAWA tonight?

by wha happened? 159 Replies latest watchtower scandals

• 

  Chaserious

  Before you guys convict the AAWA people and sentence them to the electric chair, I would suggest that in general, when parties act with the advice of an attorney, those parties are far more likely to have correctly applied the law than non attorneys who try to interpret a statute on their own.

  As an example, Las Malvinas and fizzywiglet have repeately quoted and linked to ARS 10-202. However, that is not the statute that AAWA was subject to when incorporating. They were subject to 10-3202, which is for nonprofit corporations. (verify here). 10-202 applies to for-profit corporations. Now, granted, it appears that 10-3202 also requires disclosure of names and addresses. However, I think this mistake makes the point that there may be law you are not aware of that an Arizona lawyer is aware of. If you want to make a complaint to Arizona officials and let them see if anything illegal was done, that seems fine but it seems rather irresponsible to conclude and proclaim that they have committed fraud.
• 

  slimboyfat

  But not irresponsible to ask for clarification.

  If Cedars is wanting people to send their hard earned money to AAWA he should at least clear up this legal point.

  Barbara Anderson's resignation is circumstantial evidence that all is not well.
• 

  HintOfLime

  There is a good chance they never even asked their attorney if it was ok to use an alias. The attorney asked for a list of members of the board, the AAWA members agreed to 'keep it simple' by listing Cedars under a pseudoname at Kelly's address... and that was it.

  They probably never even asked the attorney about the legality of it - they might not have even considered the ramifications, and the attorney had no reason to suspect John Cedars wasn't real. A lot of times when setting this sort of thing up, its just "give me a list", and cutting/pasting in good faith (often by someone else that works for the attorney.)

  - Lime
• 

  Chaserious

  Of course, I agree that it's not irresponsible to ask for clarification, especially by those considering donating. But the takeaway seemed to be that "anyone with a brain" should believe that a felony has been committed.
• 

  slimboyfat

  I find it hard to believe they would be so stupid.

  But then Barbara Anderson must have resigned for some reason so who knows.
• 

  Las Malvinas son Argentinas

  According to ARS 10-3202, Subsection I (for non-profits):

  Any person who executed or contributed information for a certificate of disclosure and who intentionally makes any untrue statement of material fact or withholds any material fact with regard to the information required in subsection D, paragraph 1 of this section is guilty of a class 6 felony.

  This is in line with the same exact information that the ACC representative provided fizzywiglet.

  Notice this includes not only the person who executed the COD (the Incorporator), but anyone who 'contributed information'. This would apply to cedars as well, since he came up with the alias 'John Cedars' and provided such information, and not Mr Kelly.
• 

  Dismissing servant

  I'm sure Barbara found out and left as quick as she could.
• 

  HintOfLime

  It can take 2-12 months (usually between 4 and 6) to become a recognized 501c non-profit. Searches don't seem to list them yet at:

  http://apps.irs.gov/app/eos/pub78Search.do?searchChoice=ePostcard&dispatchMethod=selectSearch

  and

  http://501c3lookup.org/

  (Although there is likely some delay before they are listed online)

  It would suggest they aren't quite a non-profit yet, and are just merely incorporated.

  - Lime
• 

  Las Malvinas son Argentinas

  Posted on behalf of fizzywiglet, at her request, in response to Chaserious:

  "Except that I checked the IRS's 501(c)3 list, and AAWA isn't on it. They may have applied for nonprofit status, but they haven't been approved yet...that generally takes between 2 and 12 months.
  
  In any event, you are incorrect to think the attorney probably advised them on this. I used to work for an attorney, and I have filled out and submitted the incorporation paperwork on that attorney's behalf, as his paralegal. It was a perfectly routine process. The attorney doesn't do background checks or ask for proof of I.D. or anything; we asked the client for the basic info (names and addresses of board members, etc.), filled out the paperwork, mailed it in, billed our client a few hundred or $1,000 for it.
  
  The attorney who submitted the paperwork on Richard Kelly's behalf would have no reason to suspect that a name/address was false unless Richard Kelly brought it up to him."
• 

  Tylinbrando

  All speculation, assumption and conjecture.