Maybe born-ins are, because we converts made the choice whereas the born-ins did not. Or are the converts more likely to because of thought patterns developed outside the cult? I'd like to know what you think.
Are born-ins or are converts most likely to leave?
by Julia Orwell 18 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
david_10
I think that it's easier for converts to leave. They have a point of reference that they can always go back to and pick up where they left off....................old habits, old friends, former life. Converts know what normal is, and can go back to it, if that's what they want.
For born-ins, though, the only life they've ever known is inside the organization, so that's normal to them. It's very hard to realize that it's not normal. As a born-in, when I left at age 35, I had to start over and practically learn everything from scratch; it's like learning how to walk for the first time.
Yes, I think it's much harder for the born-ins to leave.
David -
rebel8
My jw parent converted when I was young but I did remember all the great childhood things I experienced when we were normal. If I hadn't had that frame of reference, it would have been harder, but I still would have left.
-
Tameria2001
I was not born in, my mother became one when I was five. I guess that would be about as close to born in as it can get. My dad never became a JW, and never went to any meetings. The same is for my husband, but in his case it was both his mom and dad to became JWs. He does have relatives that he is close to that are not JWs, and never will be, because they saw first hand what happens with one does leave the Watchtower.
I can't speak for others, but I am the type of person who, if I believe it, ok, but if I don't, well let me just say I don't have time for it in my life. I won't be a hypocrite either. At first, yes it was very tough, loosing my JW relatives, but I vowed that I would never return to that vomit. Yes that is how strongly I feel about the Watchtower. I can not even stomach listen to the words and lies that come out of their mouths any more.
Someone asked me the other day how I would feel if my mother passes away, she is still alive, but getting up there. I have no love in my heart anymore for my biological JW relatives. Will I attend this woman's funeral? The answer is a flat out NO, or should I say He!! NO!! But before anyone accuses me of being cold hearted, there was a lot of abuse I had recieved at the hand of both my biological parents, and I refuse to even call them that. Anymore if I have to mention them, I call them by their first names, just not on this site. They don't even know where I live, and I don't even want them to find out.
OOPS, it looks like I got a little distracted in my toughts, but the answer for me was, when I left, it was like this weight had been lifted off of me. Yes for a while it was like learning all over again, and I was very glad that my husband was there by my side during this whole thing. He was also going through the same thing as well, so we had each other to help us through all this. I'm sure if we both would have drove any one else nuts. There are times, not so much any more, but there were times in the past that we would just get really angry. Not at each other, but our situation and what we were dealing with because of the Watchtower Cult.
-
Ucantnome
I don't know of any statisitics that would shed any light on the question.
I left for the same reason I stayed in after leaving home. It was the right thing for me to do with the information i had available.
-
Gojira_101
I was a born-in and even home schooled, not because my parents didn't want me to experience "worldly things" but because the state we lived in had the worst schools in the USA and I had some "learning issues" when I was younger...with that said I'm an only child. My mom was very afraid of me getting molested (funny how she was worried about that even before it become public), so even going over to a friends (jw friends) house to play was very limited and my mom made sure she was always there or my friends would come over to our house for sleep overs and to play. I was very sheltered growing up.
All through my teens years I was "somewhat" happy, I made friends and they left WT, I'd make more friends and they would leave...or I'd make friends and they would just not be there for me at all whenever I needed a friend. It was very lonely.
I think I mentally starting to check out of WT when I went to college in my early 20's, that was really my first time interacting with non-jw everyday and I had friends, but these friends seemed more real to me. I'm still in contact with one of my classmates and it's going on near 10 years since leaving school. Plus also school has a great way about teaching people to be critical thinkers. Anyways after I graduated I soon moved to a different state.
I'm not sure how to answer your question because i really do think it depends...because of how my family and I have been treated over the years by JWs and elders I really do think I was somewhat out mentally and it really didn't take that much convincing from my parents to wake me up to TTATT.
The hardest thing with leaving isn't the fact I lost all of my JW family and friends (I do still have my husband and parents), the hardest thing for me is all my life I have believed the JW are right about God and Christ, they are the only way to salvation (Gosh I feel like throwing up just typing that), and then at the drop of a hat your whole world gets turned upside down and EVERYTHING you have believed in whole heartedly your entire life is nothing but a lie. I didn't know what to believe anymore and for a time I was finding it very difficult to believe in God. I had nothing outside of "the truth"
It's been a helluva ride that's for sure.
So to answer your question with my thoughts, I think anyone can leave if they want to or if they can break that cult mind control, but both sides have something to help them leave. For a convert you do have a previous life to can go back to. As for a born in, we've been in so long that we have seen all the changes to doctrine, we see all the hypocrisy and especially since my dad was an MS for many years and we were in the "heart" of the cult...my family has seen and been through a lot. So over the years we all know there were problems but we all chalked it up to imperfect men running things, and that God will take care of it....now of course we know differently. I think each side perspective can have the trigger to help make them wake up and leave.
I was just thinking Julia, this would be an awesome topic for a book, have you ever considered writing?
Peace XoXo
G
-
tiki
I really relate with you Tameria and you too Gojira. My mother was mentally ill my whole life, and as a kid growing up you just think its right/normal....you accept it....then you are taught that you are particularly special becuase you are one of the blessed few who have the "truth". I too was an only and childhood was okay in terms of friends outside the cong, but not being able to participate in stuff made me feel left out. For reasons that Gojira mentions - the crash when you realize your entire life has been dictated by a bunch of hooey is mind-boggling....and you don't get over it overnight. The pieces were there, but when you put it all together and have that awakening moment, it is amazing. I still find I have thinking patterns that are warped, and luckily I have a very understanding and loving husband. He was a convert, and looking back, I realize he never bought into it 100%, so fading came easily and very naturally for him. I was more of a die-hard, but in my life I have seen so much hypocrisy and people lording it over one another for absolutely no reason....kangaroo courts....you name it.
I do think that for born-ins leaving is more challenging, and that a lot of people sense the gaps in reality of the religion, but it is all they have and they have banked their entire lives on it, so getting honest and walking out the door is unthinkable for them. For a convert, they have a pre-JW life as a point of reference, so, while it might not be easy to swallow the idea of having been duped, it is a simpler process to bow out.
Kids growing up in the religion are programmed in such a way their self-esteem is battered, so when it comes to leaving, it is hard for them and it is grossly wrong and unfair that teenagers and young adults have to remain stuck because they love and need their parents and know they will lose them if they make a move to the door. Its so pounded in that only your fellow JW's are worthy of your association that some may remain in the group solely out of fear of the unknown.
-
cha ching
I was young when my mom studied, became a witness. My husband started studying when he was 12 or 13, & after high school he became a JW.
Both of us had seen sooooooooooo many things happen, over soooooo many years.
It's like you are living in fairy tale land. "Everything will be ok, wave the wand, wait on Jehovah, don't push ahead."
We were always told it was our fault. (Oh, so that's why you lied to us?)
We did not have the resources (old books, internet) to discover the lies being told. Both of us are studiers, researchers, want the "truth", want to "get to the bottom of it all." Didn't have the means.. especially b4 the internet. WT also keeps you too busy. The merry-go-round of: Service, regular meetings, elders meetings, RBC, etc., etc., etc..
My husband's viewpoint: "It always had to be 'me.' "I wasn't studying enough," etc.... When something happened that was obviously wrong, a very faint voice from a distant part of my brain said..... "What if something is wrong with them?" All I did was study WT publications ONLY. It was enough to help me lose a lot of fear based phobias."
My viewpoint: My story is... that I am not sure how long I would have lasted without my husband. After a run in with a brother who wronged us, and post traumatic stress when trying to go in service (we had to turn around and go home as my fear increased as we approached the meeting for service, then... after 6 months? I could go up to a door, start trembling, go home... then... go for a while... etc, etc, etc.. they gave talks at assemblies, I had to leave the area.. ) I think I may have left then... or soon after. Christians should not lie, steal, etc. The brothers that tried to "help us" sort thru it were all liars... caught in their own lies, just stared back at us when I said "Hey! you are lying!"
I couldn't take the "forgive and forget" when no one was willing to admit.
Leaving for me? I wanted to make sure my kids got out. My husband, me and my kids. If I got them out, I'd make it. I have other fam' that's in, others that are not.
I actually thought people could think. When I discovered things, and shared, asked questions, I could not believe how many of my "friends" could not, would not, think. Not even give me a chance. Not even look at the scriptures I presented. Not look at the "history" of JWs... I found my "friends" were not my true "friends." So be it. Who needs friends like that? It is hard to start rebuilding resources at this age, but not impossible. Other people need friends too.
So to sum up your question: We think it doesn't matter if you are born in, or a convert.
Me: I think it depends on each individual, their character, and experience.
Him: When obviously bad things happen, combined with researched facts that contradict printed statements in the WT, anything is possible.
-
Mum
As a convert from a non-JW family, I know it was easier for me than for many born-ins whose whole family are JW's.
At about the age of 27, I realized I was very unhappy. I started going back in time to figure out what had led me to the situation I had gotten myself into. It went back to my trying always to escape my family. Being away from my family was one of the rewards of becoming a JW when I was 15. At the beginning, being a JW actually opened my world and gave me broader experience, but, as time went on, I realized it was holding me back.
I don't know if one group (born-ins vs. converts is more likely to get out, but I am certain that it's easier for converts.
-
Stubborn Disbeliever
I was a 5th generation born-in. It never clicked with me, so I was never "hooked" or "in" the cult to begin with. I did have a little of the brainwashing in the way of "you'll die and never be resurrected in Paradise" because I never truly followed or believed.
But I also was a convert to Mormonism. I was strong and steady for 6 months (that's a long time for me) then had a slip-up when my sister came into the picture for 3 days. I went back to it, slipped up again when my sister came back around for a week, then went back, and slipped up again when my sister came around the last time (this time for 2 weeks!), now she's out of the picture, i went back for a little, and just couldn't stand the control. I hadn't had coffee or tea in over a year, each slip up with with cigarettes (I've been smoking since 12 years old) and the last two with cigarettes and alcohol. I went back for a bit, my husband converted and then we saw true colors of those people as well...no one would get close to us.
The same happened with the JWs when I was reinstated, in a different state and with complete strangers, no one would come near us. People would start to talk to us, find out my husband wasn't interested in studying, and then run as fast as possible from me. With the Mormons, they clung to us in a way (only IN church though), and really made us feel welcome. Then, as soon as he was baptized, it was over. So we are both compeltely done with organized religion.
I don't know that it really makes much difference if you are born-in or a convert. Yes, you have the past ways of life with your conversion, and you have the guilty to stay if you're born in. Either way, it's not pretty lol.