Good time for R&F to preemptively question GB validity

by irondork 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • irondork
    irondork

    With the new light in the July 15 Watchtower, now might be the perfect time for rank and file members to question wether or not the big boys are who they say they are. In light of the fact that the men who claim to be the sole channel of communication for all mankind could not even grasp their own identity for the last 100 years, wouldn't now be a good time to turn the tables on the elders who are so quick to drag a questioning Dub to the back room and demand loyalty to the governing body?

    Wouldn't now be a good time to put the July 15 Watchtower in the middle of the table and ask to see the credentials on these men without fear of being suspected of apostacy? The WT itself opened the dialog. The new light places the validity of the governing body on the table for discussion. A thinking JW could ask some pretty uncomfortable questions right now that he or she may never be able to get away with under normal circumstances.

    Dub: If they've been wrong all this time, how can we trust their "channel" claims now?

    Elder: Don't you believe God is using the governing body to lead his earthly organization?

    Dub: I asked first.

  • Listener
    Listener

    It is a time for JWs to prove their loyalty to the GB and prove that they accept any rubbish they dish up.

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    Yours is a great question, irondork. Unfortunately, rational, critical thinking has never been a factor in Watchtower world. This new spin on a worn-out, and baseless, concept will be handled like all other doctrines- shut up, believe it, don't question the validity of it. Questioning = lack of faith.

    The identity of the "faithful slave" has always been an issue beginning with Russell.

    Russell originally taught the FDS was a group of Christians.

    Then it came to be accepted that Russell himself was the FDS, and he did not refute it.

    This view was the official doctrine of the WT for many years after Russell's death.

    At one point, the "generation" mentioned by Jesus was applied only to the remnant of the FDS.

    Until recently, ALL anointed ones were considered the FDS.

    Now, only the governing body is the FDS.

    So, if the WT, and more specifically the faithful slave, can't identify ITSELF, and has never had a clear grasp on its own identity, how then can any JW put faith in them, as the WT demands?

  • barry
    barry

    Ive allways believed all it needs is for someone to find a chink in their armour and to drive a wedge there. Once pluralism is established there is no going back the elders then lose their authority.

    Remember the emporior with no clothes

  • UnConfused
    UnConfused

    What's the new light in the July 15th WT?

  • konceptual99
    konceptual99

    If only it were that simple irondork. Unfortunately this is just anothe time when you have to show your faith by swallowing the junk hook line and sinker. The concept of Jehovah always having an organisation, always having a hierarchy, always having a recognised channel is too strong a mind feck to break. The loyalty question will always be there. FDS first, Christ as head second.

  • westiebilly11
    westiebilly11

    ..the emperor has no clothes.....GB.

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24

    Well folks, I think you are wrong in your responses - NOW is the time that this door should have been blown open.

    Knowing that this issue was coming up in that WT edition - I approached my Elder relative and in a conservation about many things including the generation change. While he was trying to make me see the 'light' as acceptable - I then asked 'what next? are they going to tell us that Russell is not the founder of the organization - it was Rutherford? are they going to tell us that Russell was just 'part of the world'?. The IMMEDIATE respnse was 'that's ridiculous - are you reading apostate literature?'.......at which point, I calmly claimed that 'no' - I am simply questioning how the generation can be changed and accepted - what can be changed next and blindly accepted as the truth. (this was a long, hours long discussion btw)

    This put my Elder brother in a place of surety - sure in voicing his objection that mention of this is pure apostasy. The seeds were set - I know the article is coming up - the concluson is now going to be - how could he claim I might be reading literature considered apostate - when the WT comes out with information that IS apostatate from his point of view. How will he deal with that? How much will he swallow? What will he do? If I had read that Russell would be changed from his position in the WTS, then I was reading apostate literature and that would be grounds for disfellowshipping - if the WT now prints that information, have they now been infiltrated with some apostates who are themselves spreading apostate literature?

    Everyone would have been wise to use the upcoming issues as a way to force people in their family to point the finger of apostasy at you in regards to this topic - a week or two later, you can go back and ask them if they view that article as apostate and ask them to question who is running the organization and writing articles that appear to be apostate? If a JW or the WTS itself are willing to call you out as an apostate for saying the same thing that has just been printed by the Society itself - then ask them at what point the truth has become an accepted lie? Are they spreading the truth or are they spreading lies?

    This was a prime opportunity to make some direct hits -......IMHO

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    sammielee24 said: The seeds were set - I know the article is coming up - the concluson is now going to be - how could he claim I might be reading literature considered apostate - when the WT comes out with information that IS apostatate from his point of view. How will he deal with that?

    ADCMS: On the surface your argument makes sense. However, this same exact scenario has played out recently on other issues with no effect on JWs.

    Last year, after the release of the "Become Jehovah's Friend" cartoon DVD at the District Convention, it was immediately posted on Youtube. To a person, all the JWs who watched it insisted it was a fake, a parody created by apostates to make the WT Society look bad. It was denounced as silly, ridiculous, certainly nothing that the WT would ever produce. Then, when those same JWs received their copy at the DC, two responses were elicited: 1) dead silence, 2) those same critics now declared the video a "blessing from Jehovah", 'how wonderful', 'the GB certainly is giving us wholesome spiritual food'. The critics suddenly forgot they were denouncing it recently as stupid, apostate propoganda

    There was another recent post on JWN regarding a doctrinal point highlighted at the 2012 DC. An Elder and his wife argued that the point was never said in the program, and that the JW that told them about it was promoting "apostate" ideas. That same JW located a recording of that demonstration on the program and played it for the Elder and his wife. After hearing for themselves that it was a WT teaching and was indeed on the DC program, the couple suddenly "forgot" they labelled it as an apostate teaching and went on to defend it (because now they knew it came from WT, so magically it was no longer "apostate").

    There is no way to get around the devotion the average JW has to the Organization. Your Elder brother will either forget that he called this new information "apostate" or he will rationalize around it. You'll never break through that JW mindset with logic.

    Look at how many radical "new light" changes have occurred during the WT's history. Sure, some leave the Org. over it, but most will accept whatever nonsense the GB dishes out and praise it as "food at the proper time". The sad fact is a Jehovah's Witness is going to believe whatever they want to believe- regardless of how much evidence exists to the contrary. Furthermore, I am convinced most JWs really don't care if their beliefs are true. The governing body insists all JWs must accept every WT teaching without question, and sadly, most JWs are just fine with that. You will not convince someone to change their mind or think critically if they really are not very passionate about the truthfullness of their beliefs in the first place.

    UnConfused said: What's the new light in the July 15th WT?

    ADCMS: are you being serious?

    "No way! That's great! We've landed on the moon!" - Lloyd Christmas, Dumb and Dumber, 1994

  • Gayle
    Gayle

    93 years later

    Why all this time?

    Why such an inaccuracy all this time? Can't blame it on "Babylon the Great!" (as it never originated there)

    Will all the other "partakers/anointed" of the past (non=GBers) be blamed if they ever stated they were part of the FDS? (The GB have many times blamed their inaccuracies on "others!") Will they be DF'd if now they say that? Aren't they too supposed to be 'anointed?' Anointed with what? holy spirit too, right?

    Makes one wonder, what else that is dogmatic now, to be unquestioned, will be changed some day, even up to 93 years later? The blood issue, shunning family, generation meaning (the '1914 generation' sure became garbled too, right?), etc.

    This "channel" of communication with Jehovah, how clear is it really?

    The 'static' of this "channel" is very untrustworthy.

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