by NoRegrets 162 Replies latest watchtower scandals
@jgnat - You said:
The problem, RayPublisher, is that this one-time gaffe will have repercussions for months.
My intention was not to minimize the screw-up nor any personal problems it caused you or anyone else but only to say that it was a mistake that has been fixed, and they have taken steps so that it will not happen again in the future.
RayPublisher, I was not personally affected by this gaffe. My point is that additional steps have not been taken to protect the thousand involuntary members that were invited in the flush of those early days. So the problem is not over, and won't be over for months.
<<<< So we should just ignore possible illegal activity just because they are committed to bringing down the WT? How is is legally actionable to accuse people using a pseudonym of criminal conduct? Are you suggesting slander or libel? Whatever his name is, he's going to have a hard time convincing a court that his reputation is tarnished and that he cannot find a job because someone on an internet forum said "John Cedars" might be guilty of a felony.>>>>
What damage have you sustained as a result of the use of that pseudonym? You are quick to throw stones, but you are not privy to all of the facts. Your accusations are reckless and indicative of a person who speaks first and thinks later.
Of course, my statement about spitting on you was not meant to be taken literally, but the feelings behind that statement were very genuine. Your conduct, in attacking a WT opposer whose alleged "crime" had no impact on your life, supports only the Watchtower. You are no friend of anyone who opposes the Watchtower.
SIMON You are the DOG'S ....... Proper.
I know I am new, but I have learned how vital this site is. It is a brilliant forum. But know what I LOVE THE MOST.................... the honesty. THE TRUTH. Integrity, justice. Things that we are supposed to stand for people. Be able to have open free discussions on anything ( in balance ), also being able to get educated. The wealth of information and experienced NICE people here who understand and are always ready to help others. YOU SHOULD GET AN AWARD FOR IT - really. Because I think praise should get what praise is DUE. RESPECT is something that is EARNED. As is TRUST. You don't have to like someone, but you need to respect them. There's enough false in the world. If it wasn't for you this place wouldn't be here for us, I for one am grateful.
I for one disagree with Sab going off topic here and using it for a personal attack. Bit selfish - considering the seriousnsess of the issue of AAWA and associated problems. Especially when we are talking about people and LIVES OF LOVED ONES. Even if they are not loved one's they are still humans and we have a moral duty. So yes, I think untasteful.
Ty - not happy with you. You want to know why - You caused this S**T storm !!!! Yes - you did. ( not the original AAWA storm, they did that). The secondary storm - where things degenerated so bad Simon locked it. You waded in at the end of pages of days and days of discussions, when it had pretty much been put to bed, people had had their say and the dust was settling. YOU stirred it all up. Yes you did.
You don't believe me people - then go back to the beginning and read EVERYTHING, I think there were 3 diff threads at the time (not sure) related to it all.
( edited to add. I would copy and paste but I can't remember how to. )
I even told you you were stirring it up. 1 min you was ok. then the next you changed tune totally - I thought It was a different person talking. Then you said things to me I was not happy about - you know this, but the thread got CLOSED cos of the nastiness and I didn't get my chance to respond to you.
In reflection, I decided to just let it go.
IT IS ALL THERE IN WRITING. NO ONE FROM HERE STARTED OFF BEING NASTY TO AAWA - WE WERE NOT KNOCKING THE THEORY OR THE ETHOS. THAT WAS REPEATEDLY SAID. People didn't like the name, That was all. We are entitled to not like a name.
Then it descended by it's own hand.
You have also repeated it and done the same thing here again. Yes - you have. Whether it is intentional or not, I do not know. I suspect though that it is.
regards
lost
Excuse me for hijacking the thread back from Sabastious, but -
I'm finally going to weigh in here. Other than making a smartass comment or two, I havent said anything about this entire AAWA thing. No one really cares what I have to say about anything anyway, so why bother... but I'm gonna say it anyway and y'all can ignore it, flame it, like it, hate it. Don't give a shit. It's my opinion.
Ever since the first thread that announced the AAWA, my spidey sense started tingling. Not sure why, I didn't expect it to blow up into the mess it did. But I had reservations about a group of ex-JWs creating a legal entity in order to fight the WTS. I saw some well respected names on the list of the founding group, so I hoped it might be a well run deal (how'd that work out?), but to me, our dealings with the WTS, its doctrines, the local elders, our JW family are personal fights and dealings. We each have to face our obstacles and do what we think is right for us personally. Some can be out front and flying the aposate flag with pride...others have to be coy and secretive, undermining the WTS authority from within, not to crush the Empire, but to free one or two people only.
Face it. You're not going to bring down a 7 million person strong religion. You have to do what you can do to free yourself, your mate, best friend, parents, children. That, and the fact that I dont' want or need some group representing me is why I never took to the idea, nor gave thought of aligning myself with them in any kind of way. I'm a guerilla fighter. And my fight is for personal gain...my family. For no other reason and once I win that battle, the war is over for me.
And as we all know, the more 'in your face' you are about the misdealings, and screwups, and screwed up doctrines you are about the WTS, the more you drive the sheeple under their protective cloak. Being out front, taking the fight to them does not help my family. It only gives them a persecution complex that makes it harder for me to undermine on the sly.
I think more harm is done to the WTS by forums like this, where ideas and experiences are shared. Websites like JWFacts where factual information about the WTS is available for anyone to view it...without it being forced down their throat. Until a JW wants to question and see the information for themselves, they aren't going to look. But when they are ready, it's great to find a wealth of information on the 'net, without a provactive and antagonistic force trying to lead the way.
My opinion, for what it's worth.
Carry on...
Hello Undercover, I understand where you are coming from. I too have a family inside who I want to see the light. I have been through a rigorous trial and error process which has been indescribably painful for all parties involved. Throughout this process I slowly became aware of the core issue which is the Watchtower mind control process. My entire family was subject to this from birth. The negative behavioral effects of the Watchtower cult on my family are relatively easy to identity. I don't blame them, I blame the system they were forcibly subject to from birth. The Watchtower keeps their adherents in a state of extreme denial. This can ONLY be achieved by a finely crafted system of mind control. My entire family is the result of someone being defrauded long before they came into the world. I can trace all blame back the Watchtower. I am not blaming people, I am blaming a destructive system that people created and continue to improve upon.
The "system of things" is the Watchtower System of Mind Control! It is fine tuned to create a perpetual supply of worshipping sheep who have pockets to pick. I'm sure you have seen the Governing Body turning up the heat on our families as of late. Their new product line will come with even worse side effects. This is a hostage situation, there's no other way to look at it. They are feeding the minds of their youth with incredibly potent mind control. They fully understand that people like you go undercover and try to get their family back. They have you taken care of, my friend. How much success have you had in getting your family back, so far? You might awaken one person at the cost of solidifying the programming in many others. They are like the Joker in Batman making us choose between the people we love. I don't negotiate with terrorists.
Individuals work, but there has to be something heavier or else the Watchtower is going to end up with a legion of mind controlled maniacs. They are and always will be a trauma based mind control cult who prey on the minds and bodies of children. They work tireslessly against you, undercover, with an army of volunteers. It's time to fight fire with fire, at least that's the way I see it.
-Sab
Lost I never attacked you personally and I offered my apologies in the event you felt I was. Again I am sorry you feel that way. I do have a right to state my position and observations just like everyone else. I enjoy Simon's take on the issues and if it seems to you I am vascilating it is because I understand many of the points of concern and would also like to see them addressed. I will remain a supporter of AAWA and JWN and will listen openly to people who present their information in the way Simon has done.
Cedars has been attacked repeatedly on all of these threads in a "nasty" way by many. My stating that does not mean I am calling you out personally Lost.
Finally, and despite your claim, I will not take any credit for compelling these debates any further than it would happen of its own volition.
However, you DO have every right to act like a ruthless dictator, or you can be a decent human being, up to you. It's not ME who made YOUR reputation of tyranny, that was all you, buddy. You made your bed, now sleep in it. No reason to whine about people naturally reacting to oppression and bullying. "When injustice becomes law resistance becomes duty." I'm all out of aphorisms.
Sebastious. Now you're just getting boring and tiresome. Please show me where I have been a ruthless dictator and tyrant - or are you just bleating on because some crappy post you made got removed and now you can't let it go or else you heard it from someone else with a grudge and figured you'd just believe it because thinking things for yourself is just too difficult.
If you continue this, you WILL be deleted then you will have what you seem to desire.
So again, sorry to sound like a broken record, but on the matter of donations to the AAWA? Marvin indicated that perhaps it would best for some to offer a few coins and be on their way as far as the AAWA is concerned. That got me to thinking... What do they intend to do with those few coins? Have they a plan or stated intention?
I think this whole FB hole has been plugged- I just added someone today and was immediately contacted by an AAWA admin and asked if the person knew they were being added and I confirmed that yes they did.
No one is getting added without their permission. That was a one-time gaff wasn't it?
Erm ... if that is the case then they have fixed nothing.
If you added someone else then why is the admin asking you if they want to be added?!?!? THEY NEED TO ASK THE PERSON BEING ADDED !!!!
Even if they fix this, the problem still remains that they do no know who they are adding or why that person is asking to join which puts everyone who has ever joined (or been joined without their knowledge) or will join in future AT RISK.
What do they intend to do with those few coins? Have they a plan or stated intention?
From their website:
1. Key Objectives
AAWA is committed to two key objectives:
To achieve these objectives, AAWA will:
...
6. Financial Transparency
AAWA accepts donations for the furtherance of its key objectives. AAWA therefore understands its obligation to undertake its accounting and spending practices in a responsible manner. To that end, and in the interests of transparency, those who donate funds to AAWA will be entitled to a summary of how donated funds have been spent on a quarterly basis.
By the same token, any associates who are granted money or resources from AAWA for a specific purpose will be responsible for ensuring that such monies or resources are spent or used in a manner than complies with AAWA’s key objectives, and does not contravene AAWA’s principles of religious neutrality and executive responsibility, as referred to in the previous articles.
I think it would be difficult for them to provide specifics on how the money will be spent but they do say they will report how it was spent. There are no details though on how decisions about allocations of funds will be made or by whom.
