Ancient Egypt and the Isrealites

by MrMoe 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • MrMoe
    MrMoe

    Ok, Moe gets serious, in a serious mood.

    How accurate is the bible as a history book? Who knows, generally accurate in parts. Now, I did this post to show relevance to the Ancient Israelite beliefs and what they had in common with the Egyptians.

    I feel the Jewish faith is actually much like a sect of the ancient Egyptian beliefs. Which in a round-about way alters modern Christianity as we know it. Not to say Jesus didn't exist.. although I hope to discuss this at a later date.

    Here is PART of the reason why. I feel the following has more to do with religion than with history. I will, when I have time, correlate more Egyptian and Ancient Israelite beliefs, including points on the Messiah.

    Here goes my first serious thread for quite some time:

    Joseph and Imotep I feel are the same person.

    Joseph of the bible was sold to the Egyptians and later became prime minister.

    Imhotep was also of a prime minister type status and was born a commoner as well. One HUGE aspect that connects them is the dream of the 7 year famine. The meaning of their names is also very similar.

    OK - First, their names:

    Imotep's Name
    Imhotep in Egyptian means the voice of Im

    Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, "I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'IAM has sent me to you.'"

    In the bible it mentions Joseph was given the Egyptian name Zaphenath-paneah. That name means "the God lives; the God speaks".

    Imhotep was a doctor/holy man
    "And Joseph commanded his servants the physicians to embalm his father: and the physicians embalmed Israel." GEN 50:2

    OK - Now the 7 year famine/feast

    There is an Egyptian inscription that is supposedly written by the Egyptian King Djoser. It discusses nothing other than...

    A seven (7) year famine and seven years of plenty.

    Comparing the bible and this inscription. The bible account first:

    Genesis Chapter 41 NIV (I edited this a bit - cut some of the boring dribble out)
    1-7 discuss the dream in detail with the seven fat cows etc...
    8-13 discuss somebody telling Pharaoh about Joseph and how he could interpret dreams
    14 So Pharaoh sent for Joseph, and he was quickly brought from the dungeon. When he had shaved and changed his clothes, he came before Pharaoh.
    15 Pharaoh said to Joseph, "I had a dream, and no one can interpret it. But I have heard it said of you that when you hear a dream you can interpret it."
    17-24 Pharaoh tells Joseph about his dreams
    25-32 Pharaoh basically makes Joseph a holy man and...
    33 And now let Pharaoh look for a discerning and wise man and put him in charge of the land of Egypt.
    37 The plan seemed good to Pharaoh and to all his officials.
    38 So Pharaoh asked them, "Can we find anyone like this man, one in whom is the spirit of God?"
    39 Then Pharaoh said to Joseph, "Since God has made all this known to you, there is no one so discerning and wise as you.
    40 You shall be in charge of my palace, and all my people are to submit to your orders. Only with respect to the throne will I be greater than you."
    41 So Pharaoh said to Joseph, "I hereby put you in charge of the whole land of Egypt."
    42 Then Pharaoh took his signet ring from his finger and put it on Joseph's finger. He dressed him in robes of fine linen and put a gold chain around his neck.
    43 He had him ride in a chariot as his second-in-command, [3] and men shouted before him, "Make way!" Thus he put him in charge of the whole land of Egypt.
    44 Then Pharaoh said to Joseph, "I am Pharaoh, but without your word no one will lift hand or foot in all Egypt."
    45 Pharaoh gave Joseph the name Zaphenath-Paneah and gave him Asenath daughter of Potiphera, priest of On, to be his wife. And Joseph went throughout the land of Egypt.

    In the inscription:

    Here King/Pharaoh Djoser is troubled about a famine and asks Imhotep who the god of the Nile is, so he can approach him about the drought:
    "... I asked him who was the Chamberlain...Imhotep, the son of Ptah... What is the birthplace of the Nile? Who is the god there? Who is the god? I need the guidance of Him who presides over the fowling net..."

    In the Egyptian text, Imhotep is termed "the son of Ptah", who was the Egyptian god known as the "creator" of everything else, including the other gods.

    Later in the inscription Imhotep answers the pharaoh and interprets the dream. Basically seven years of feast and seven years of drought, but here the feast and famine are reversed.

  • sleepy
    sleepy

    I've read quite a bit about Eygpt and Isreal over the past few years , but not enought to remember everything of the top of my head.
    Have you ever read David Rohls books?

    Intresting stuff about Imhotep .
    We have the hole Akhenaten saga to consider.
    Those those not familiar with it basically Akhenaten was an egyptian king who banned all the former religious beliefs , such as mulitpule Gods, and set up a new religion of a single god Aten.
    It was the only other monotheistic religion outside of Judism.
    He moved the capital city and lots of other things.
    Heres some intresting points, the followers of this new religionwere said to be in the "truth",he (god) cannot bve addressed by name, nor a graven image,he is only true god the sole creator.

    Did Akhenaten get this from the Isrealites or the other way round.
    Anyway his reign didn't last long and Eygpt was soon back to its old religions.

  • MrMoe
    MrMoe

    Sleepy - No, I have not read his books. I will make it a point to do so.

    As far as who stole who's doctrines... I think much was stolen from each other, although the Egyptians were SO ancient... Since we did not live then, we will never know.

    But, it is in my opinion that the Israelites "took" much of their beliefs from the Egyptians. In the case of Akhenaten that you mentioned, perhaps it was the Egyptians that took the "One" god belief from the Israelites.

    ALTHOUGH - the Egyptians still believed in ONE almighty male supreme being.

    I hope to cover much more later. Take so long to type this stuff.

    Kisses,
    Moe

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    What beliefs are you talking about? Not to steal, murder, etc., I agree, they are the same. However, religion wise, the Jews alone were monotheistic.....true?

    Also, Joseph did not, as far as I can tell, have a part in writing the Tora for Israel, that came some 600 years later under Moses (hence, the mosaic laws).

  • refiners fire
    refiners fire

    Well thats an interesting theory Moe, duly noted.
    A lot of big words in that post....guess youre not a dumb blonde after all!
    (Not that I thought you were).
    Imhotep and Ahkenaten are all the rage at the moment, lots of stuff about them on the box.
    The understanding I have of Ahkenaten is that he set up Sun Worship in Egypt.

  • MrMoe
    MrMoe

    Ahkenaten was Amenhotep IV. Supposedly one of his wives was Nefertiti, although I have not researched him in detail. He did introduce the "sun disk" and new art from what I DO know.

    Monotheism is the belief in only one Supreme God. Christianity, Judaism and Islam are the main three. I was not discussing this point though. I was relating to the bible as a history book and basically nit-picking it as to which story do you believe - Egypt's or the Bible's? Much of ancient history can be and has been re-written to suit the current rulers or Gods and make them look better/magical than they really are.

    Now, as far as my dumb blonde image - shhhhhh. Ever see the movie legally blonde? Although I am not near as "cutesy."

    I am off, need to leave work... As I mentioned before, I have many more things to bring up. One of my other goals with this is to point to the fact religion is all the same - just rehashed according to different cultures and leaders. Egypt is a big hobby of mine, but I wish to discuss other relions as well, including the God-Head, Messiah, and Holy Mother Aspect... So, until next time...

    Kisses,
    Moe

    P.S. Don't plan on the serious thing sticking for TOO long...

  • logical
    logical

    i thought imotep got frisky with the pharoah's wife and when discovered killed the pharoah and eventually got caught and punished and was awakened when a woman read from the book of the dead

    or is that something else?

  • MrMoe
    MrMoe

    Ahhh you are thinking of the movie Mummy.

    Mmmmmmmm he was SO babe-a-licious. Yum yum yum! Take me you bad bad man!

    Kisses,
    Moe

  • Moxy
    Moxy

    and there you have it. 85 minutes of serious moe. is that a record?

    mox

  • Simon
    Simon

    There was a programme on in the UK last week exploring the link between the Judean "Copper Scroll" and the Egyption city that Akhenaten founded ... quite convincing stuff.

    I've read Rohl's books - they are pretty good and very interesting. I definitely think that some 'accepted' history needs to be re-examined because it isn't based on facts.

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