This question gets people defensive because they have to question they own belief system. Born Agains and Jws always claim to follow the bible 100% but when this question comes up I always get silence from both groups. Because in the Bible Jesus says whatever he ask the father I will be granted. Now the question comes to mind why would Jehovah reserrect the murderers of his beloved son? Because Jesus says "Father forgive them" so killing Jesus guarentees a person a spot in heaven or paradise earth? Come on this is so bogus and unfair if Jehovah will allow these to get a reward for killing Jesus. Born Agains have a harder time to explain this with their Heaven or Hell doctrine. Because born agains believe either you go to heaven or hell period. So if Jesus granted his killers forgiveness then they have to be in heaven without accepting Jesus as their savior. Born Agains go into a freenzy on this point. JWs say in the reserrection they will have to learn the truth and accept Jesus before they can get everlasting life. But Jesus says "father forgive them" if Jesus forgives you there should be no test involved you just made it. I am beginning to believe in what some of the critics of the bible say and feel that some parts of the bible just does not make sense. This does not shake my believe in Jehovah ad Jesus I just wonder about the Bible as a whole.
I have a question for born agains and jws. When Jesus ask Jehovah to forgive the men who killed him are they in heaven?
by booker-t 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Ding
I think his prayer was similar to Stephen's later prayer regarding his killers: "Do not hold this sin against them."
It wasn't blanket forgiveness for all their sins without repentance, but a prayer not to destroy them for this killing.
Those soldiers, after all, were carrying out Pilate's execution order and they did not understand who Jesus was.
They viewed him as a Jewish troublemaker condemned to death by Pilate.
Hence, "Father forgive them; they know not what they do."
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Tiktaalik
>> " This does not shake my believe in Jehovah ad Jesus I just wonder about the Bible as a whole."
Nothing in the bible makes sense. What about all the killing and raping and genocide in the bible? You all ok with that?
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Tiktaalik
>> " This does not shake my believe in Jehovah ad Jesus I just wonder about the Bible as a whole."
Nothing in the bible makes sense. What about all the killing and raping and genocide in the bible? You all ok with that?
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Black Sheep
Jesus didn't ask Jehovah to forgive them.
Quoting you .... "Father forgive them"
Any evangelical worth his salt should know that "God the Father" does not = Jehovah, but they have not been taught how to explain this concept to someone convinced of JW theology.
The 'Trinity' that JWs have been taught, is not taught by Trinitarians, or their favourite whipping boy the Catholic Church, and is not The Trinity at all, it is Modalism. The WT scammed you on this one .... don't let them get away with it.
BTW, I believe man created gods .... all of them
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smiddy
booker-t
You mistakenly beleive born agains and jehovahs witnesses beleive the bible 100% ....WRONG.
They beleive their INTERPRETATIONS of what the bible is supposed to be saying is true . And this changes all the time.
THINK ...If Jehovahs Witnesses beleived 100% that the bible is true.....Why have they changed their beleifs/interpretations of scriptures these past 130+ years ? Do some research outside Watchtower propaganda ,go to a library and do your own research ,you will be amazed
Jehovahs Witnesses ( and others ) need to get this fact through their thick skulls , TRUTH NEVER CHANGES, however interpretations change all the time.
smiddy
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DeWandelaar
If you read further in the same scriptures you will see that at least one of the soldiers says the following in Mark 15:39:
c And when the centurion, who stood facing him, saw that in this way he 8 breathed his last, he said, d “Truly this man was the Son 9 of God!”
At the moment they executed Jesus they were following orders... they simply did not know Jesus... they acknowledged him after that though.
Jesus knows people their hearts... so he knew their ignorance but also the fact they could/would follow them.
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FingersCrossed
It is just like your kid did something to hurt you but you, out of love, hope that they will not have to face death penalty for what they did. The people who killed Jesus were still alive when they killed Jesus, Jesus hoped they would repent & believe, thus, forgiven. It is not the act of killing that gained them salvation on the spot but their repentance and belief later. In other word, He asked and hoped for a second chance for these people.
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FingersCrossed
The 'Trinity' that JWs have been taught, is not taught by Trinitarians, or their favourite whipping boy the Catholic Church, and is not The Trinity at all, it is Modalism.
The JW teaches that Trinity = God the Father and Jesus are the same person. But the truth about the definition of Trinity is, God the Father is not Jesus, but of the same nature, ie the Godhead. They even got the definition of Trinity wrong. Correct me if I am wrong about this (JW version of Trinity).
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unstopableravens
booker t , the bible is clear ,you must be born again, if your not your not going to enter the kingdom, forgive them for that sin of murdering (him), they were not forgiven of all there sins, romans 6:1-11 shows how a person is no longer accountable for his sins, the bible is solid and of course we are the ones who need to adjust our view not the bible. two principles that always help are the context principle and the harmony principle. when you use these two you will never go wrong.